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I sent Joanie a message Friday hoping she would delete the comment and nip it all in the bud. My message to Joanie was along the lines that she should delete the comment at her site, that I knew Kate's daughter had made it, and that I was on an AIM chat with Kate until an hour or so before the daughter made the comment. In the past I had urged Kate to remain silent when the whole "those poor kids" thing started.

Joanie had the power to end this by deleting the comment, yet she and Greg played it to the hilt, which finally drove me over the edge and off the sidelines. This has been very painful for me, because I like both of these women. Honestly I wish the would both ban each other from each others sites and move on, but the situation did go "off the Internet" and just because you didn't make the call doesn't absolve you of some level of responsibility.

I believe that Joanie was not involved in the call, but she damn sure bears responsibility for not taking an apology and deleting a comment. I knew the whole story about Kate's daughter finally fessing up to reading her e-mail all summer, but was not at liberty to share it.

Either way she (and Crazy Tracy) have been reading things into Kate's posts for months. I challenge you to find a site that mentions Kate where she does not show up in the comments... They've been advocating just this kind of hairbrained call by spreading gossip and untruths. The fact that she publicized this whole blowup and hosted the incendiary comments is sort of telling, don't you think?

She could have easily stopped this before it started. She would not, so she is guilty at a minimum of flame fanning. Only CPS knows who called. Again, I take Joanie at her word that she was not involved in the call, but as the listing below shows it's not hard for a nutjob to connect the dots as to her hatred for Kate.

I've collected a sampling of DaGoddess collection of Kate bashing, as they are more powerful when viewed as a whole. You decide if she had it in for Kate, and if the fuel for a nutjob was spread. Note the frequent presence of another health professional "Tracy".

I'll let her comments (and those of a few others) speak for themselves...

Links go to the post so you can read for yourself, in context...

From this post at DaGoddess

I'd think blaming one's child for things a parent did while in a drunken fit of rage would be something child protective services would like to know about, don't you?

cleannose August 15, 2003 03:08 PM

A 12-year old can't spell "her"? A 12-year old has that much hatred in her that she flings about words like "white trash," "dirty slut" and "dirty rotten filthy bitch"? Just want kind of children is this Venomous Kate person raising? And how is it that this "12-year-old" can't spell "blog" but can spell "venomous"? Blog is a phonetic word. She would've spelled it right on a guess.

There is much to fear here, folks. This Venomous Kate character is a fucking psycho nutbag. Trust me on this. There is major borderline personality disorder playing out here. Add alcohol. I fear for this woman's children. Fucking crazy ass bitch.

Tracy August 16, 2003 08:03 AM

From Velociworld

The term Breaking Away should denote the blogs that are AHEAD of the pack.

You want cycling themes, Kim? You'll have to run your ass off to stay ahead of me. Three years of working/running a bike shop, the Death Valley to Mt. Whitney ride, and thousands of miles pedalled....

Of course, I could just act like a bitch and scream REFUND!? REFUND?! about the yellow jersey business but I'm really one of the few who don't care about ranking.

Love the theme. But....work on the terms.

Posted by: Da Goddess at May 28, 2003 05:14 PM

From Ravenwood
I think all the bitching about it is tacky.
You get what you pay for.
You reap what you sow?
Uh.......hmmm.....god, what other insults can I hurl?

Da Goddess | 05/29/2003 - 02:30 AM

Well, I have. It's fun. Try it.

Actually, I should probably go back to all that touchy feely shit since I've managed to piss everyone off.

Somehow...I don't think it's gonna help me cope this week.

Rage and bile are working whether any of us like it.

Da Goddess | 05/31/2003 - 09:43 AM

Rita wrote:
Venomous Kate shares some excellent blog wisdom. Go read.

Too bad it's not the truth.

Posted by: Da Goddess on June 3, 2003 03:31 PM
What's not the truth?

Posted by: Rita on June 3, 2003 03:57 PM
She left out all of the stuff that she did to people along the way. Frankly, it was my own damn fault for believing her when she hit me up for advice and support.

I learned my lesson this time. I'll never go out of my way for some random e-mailer in the future.

Posted by: Da Goddess on June 3, 2003 11:45 PM

From Bill's Content

I completely understand his frustrations - though it's easier for me than most. Having spent time with the man, there are so many layers to him that it's impossible to get a true sense of who he is from a blog alone.

All I can say is that his main points regarding mass marketing are spot on. Sure, you gain hits...but do you make any real friends or garner any true respect?

Most of us who blog don't do it because we want to rehash the news. I know I read a great many more NON-news blogs than I do newsy ones. For a good many, blogging is a way of creating a community for oneself.

Perhaps that's why there's so much frustration in Acidman's posts. Quite a few of us opened our arms and welcomed a newcomer only to have all of our friends inundated with e-mails to come see the new kid on the block. Come ons linking us to the sales pitch - without our permission.

My mailbox was full of people asking me "WTF? Who is she? Why did you send her to my site and have her e-mail me?" It's difficult to tell your friends that your new buddy did this without your permission.

Perhaps I should just post the entire story on my own site. Somehow, I think it would only fuel the arguments and cause more trouble than it's really worth.

I went from thinking I had a friend to being shit on myself in this ordeal. It's left me feeling very much in need of a long shower.

I'll understand if you'd like to edit this out.
Posted by: Da Goddess on Jun 03, 03 | 12:56 am

I have been blogging for a year now and have found that the people I met at the outset are the ones who were looking for friendships as well as good reading. I take my friendships seriously.

As I told VK in an e-mail, I was flattered by her request for my help in getting started and her overtures at friendship. It never entered my mind that I was one of several blog parents. I knew of one other. Mea culpa. Completely my fault. I tend to believe the people who write me and say they respect my writing and my candor. In all the time I've been blogging, I've encountered TWO people who have betrayed the friendship and rapport that we developed. One was taken off my blogroll (quietly) because of sheer cruelty on their part. The other apologized profusely when they realized what they'd done. It took time, but we have mended fences.

Even with Acidman I've not had a smooth road. He's cranky and mean at times. That's part of who he is. Is it always therapeutic for him? No. He's as aware of that as the rest of us. But, I know him and know how he works. I accept that as part of who he is. That makes neither of us right or wrong. It's just how it is.

Maybe I take my friendships TOO seriously. That's just how I am. I've learned from experience, though, that there are real friendships to be formed through blogging. It's been proven true more often than not to me. I've always had a problem with being too trusting rather than too suspicious.

I wish VK all the luck in the world with her site...just as I do all the others I encounter. The blogosphere is plenty big enough for us all.

Posted by: Da Goddess on Jun 03, 03 | 3:28 pm

In addition to e-mailing you an apology, I am going to tell you here.

I'm sorry for using your home to air my frustrations. You've been a gracious host and I was out of line.
Posted by: Da Goddess on Jun 05, 03 | 4:01 am

She highlighted a rant against Kate in the COTV.

From e-Clarie

Thank you, Bill! You hit it right on the head.
Go read Moody Mama's post about her life while trying to raise a couple of kids, work nights, and have a husband overseas. THAT'S a tough life. Sitting on one's ass in front of a computer all the time with healthy kids and a military husband who is safely at home every night, choosing not to work, and living in Hawaii....that's not a hardship. She's describing boredom.
Posted by: Da Goddess at July 27, 2003 11:40 PM

She's describing alcoholism!
Her entire rant is utter shit.
Posted by: Tracy at July 28, 2003 07:43 AM

Which led Claire to observe:

... Isn't it interesting that the three women who responded here are being pointlessly cruel; and not even to me but to a person who isn't here...

Posted by: Claire at July 30, 2003 01:31 PM

From An Unsealed Room -

You don't even have to pick a side. Go look at MY comments on Acidman's site. Go to read Moody Mama. Compare her story about "The Stroll" with Kate's post. Now, tell me....who gets more sympathy from you?

Don't ask me to feel sorry for you when you have two healthy kids who want your attention. Don't ask me to feel sorry for you when your military husband is home safe with you each and every night.....

There are worse fates than what Kate's dealing with.

Yes, I understand the mental and emotional trials she wrote about because I'm a woman, a mother, and have been a wife. But, there's a difference in calling it something that speaks for all women. It doesn't. It just sounds ungrateful, whiny, and BORED.

Posted by: Da Goddess at July 28, 2003 07:37 AM
She spends every morning sitting on the lanai with her daughter looking at the ocean in Hawaii. She needs to shut the fuck up.

Posted by: Tracy at July 28, 2003 05:43 PM
Tracy, she's also 24-hour caregiver to a 3-year-old and her husband is in the military and travels frequently. Any of us who have spent uninterrupted weeks with a toddler day and night can report that she has a right to complain when she's in a bad mood. Just because her life might not be as bad as most people does not take away her right to bad moments. We all have them.

Posted by: Allison at July 28, 2003 10:41 PM
A 24-hour caregiver? What the fuck does that mean? Are you saying she's a mother? Of course she has a right to complain, but she has no fucking right to include me and every other fucking woman in the world in her goddamn rant. Bad moments? Her life is a fucking train wreck.

Posted by: Tracy at July 31, 2003 04:31 AM

From Inoperable Terran:

Kate's rant is complete and utter crap.
Posted by: Tracy at July 28, 2003 10:46 AM

Mari, hormonal flux? Puuuuhleeeze!
There's a lot to be concerned about in that house. Look at those kids. Look at her husband. Look at her characterization of her world (in this post and in the archives.) This isn't just a flux.
Tracy did a fine job taking things apart and explaining who owns those problems. As a psych nurse, I think she's entirely able to do so without ASSUMING anything. Throughout Kate's blog is a history that spells things out.....completely and wholly.
I had my two minutes with this post and then went to read Tracy's. She nailed it so much better than I ever could.
Posted by: Da Goddess at July 29, 2003 01:46 AM

From: Time For Your Meds

Tracy, thanks for summing up all that I wanted to say but couldn't. Thanks for pointing out all the danger signals and the obvious part about the alcohol.

You know, my big concern is for those kids. Her daughter is there for the summer....having been away from her mom a long time. Do you honestly think she'll want to return for an extended stay next summer if she feels resented now? And that little boy.....

I'm sure a lot of the drinking and the drama has been played up for the sake of the blog, but frankly, I've always thought that the undercurrent of anger toward the husband and the intrusion by her son (prior to her daughter's visit) isn't merely creative license. When you see things like that over and over again, presented in a variety of ways, you take that as a sign that all's not quiet on any front.

You nailed the danger signals, Tracy. Every single scary one of them.

Posted by: Da Goddess on July 29, 2003 01:56 AM

Note: This post is no longer available. In this situation the blogger removed the post due to the comments left in response to his defense of Venomous Kate.

It wasn't that she was venting, Kim. It's WHAT she said and HOW she said it.
At the end of the entry she went on to speak for all us women. She brought us all down with that, presuming to speak for all of us.
Add to that the undercurrent of anger and hostility that have been present in other posts regarding her husband and kids. Danger signals to anyone who's ever worked in the behavioral health field. She needs a little break from it all and needs to do it soon. Not just from family and every day demands...blogging too.
Something's afoot and it ain't pretty. Not from where I stand.
I feel for those kids of hers.
I hope she goes for help. Really and truly.
Posted by: Da Goddess at July 29, 2003 06:17 AM

From MoodyMama -

Rachelle, I'm with you on this one.

I post at another site...using my online name...but nobody really knows about that site. There are things I post there that I don't post on my own blog because I just need a very safe place to post them and to receive some feedback.

Taking the venom out. Good analogy!
Posted by: Da Goddess at August 6, 2003 06:42 AM


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Enough!!!:

» www [dot] margilowry [dot] com linked with You Do Know The Difference Don't You?

» Kin's Kouch linked with More yuck

» Freedom Lives linked with Venomous Roundup

» Electric Venom linked with ENOUGH!

» Bene Diction Blogs On! linked with Use your AIM to check hits

» insinuendo linked with WTF!? The web continues to amaze me

» Sketches of Strain linked with The Dirt

» Peoria Pundit linked with Blogging from junior high school

» suburban blight linked with Beach Bum

» Bene Diction Blogs On linked with Use your AIM to check hits

» Freedom Lives linked with Venomous Roundup

Comments (16)

Wow. Viewed like that, all... (Below threshold)

Wow. Viewed like that, all mashed together, it isn't a very flattering picture. At the very least, it is poor sportsmanship and sour grapes.

Poor Kevin, you're probably scrubbing up after having to deal with all of that foulness.

Thank you for taking the time to put all of that together. Makes it easier to see the whole picture.

Good morning, Kevin...Great... (Below threshold)

Good morning, Kevin...Great job. I've been watching this mess unfold over the last couple of days and I've had the same thought from the beginning....karma. This is what a person gets, and deserves, when they pull this kind of 'holier-than-thou' crap on people. Which DG does constantly.

Does the name Zander mean anything to anybody?

Briefly: Zander was (still is..password protected now) a blogger. He blogged about having cancer, among other things. I have no idea, because I've never met, or even emailed him, whether or not his story was true. I also do not know what, exactly, got DG stuck up his butt, but she took it off line. She posted a lot about how she 'researched' this guy...even said she (or one of her fellow 'researchers') called the hospital he went to for treatments to find out whether or not his story was true. Now, what is that? The exact same kind of privacy invasion Kate has just been put through. Hmmm. For the same reason: DG decided she didn't like the person anymore for whatever reason. Hmmm.
She already doesn't like me, apparently. I got called 'troll' by her in a blog's comments. Mind you, I have never insulted, trolled, or in any impugned her, personally or any other way. And, the comment I left that she felt compelled to comment on herself, was just pointing out an article to the author of the blog that I thought she'd like.
The only two things I can think of that may have caused her to decide I suck are the fact that I hang out (or did) way too much at one particular blog. I admit it...I did. I was...what's the word?....intensely interested in, hooked on, a big 'ol butt kissin' fan of....a moon-eyed dipstick over (however you want to put it) this blog. It was the first one I'd ever read. I was fascinated. I learned a LOT from the guy. (His blog is what gave me the cajones to start my own.) I had been reading him for months, so I knew of the history between the author and DG. This one time, he posted something I really wanted to respond to, but I was scared to death because I had barely even commented at his blog, let alone ever emailed anybody like this...plus, I had made a HUGE mistake at an entirely different blog within the first month that I ever even knew what they were. I acted like a troll and an asshole because I felt that that author had unfairly picked on the author of my favorite blog. I felt bad about it, figured out a few things from it and didn't want to ever do it again. (And, I haven't.) So, between my fear of what reaction I might get from the person I wanted to email and my fear of inadvertantly doing something stupid again, I emailed DG first to explain myself and ask about emailing the guy. Her first response was pleasant, but I had a couple of follow up questions. Her responses got progressively colder. She said that if I wrote to this guy, he'd either just delete it without ever reading it or if he did, he'd probably just fisk it in a post. Then she said that if I was going to be all infatuated with him, there was nothing else she would be able to do for me. (?) Oookaaay.
Well, I wrote to the guy, after all. He neither ignored or fisked me and I've had several very nice email exchanges with him since.
The other thing was when my favorite author had guest bloggers. I rather bluntly agreed with another commenter that the blog was much better with the original author than the guests. Well...sigh. I later re-read my original comment and wanted to hide under the computer desk because it was so raw. Not obscene..just blunt. So, I went back and apologised to all the guest bloggers and explained myself. DG was one of those guest bloggers. Her response to the original comment was for me (and the other commenter) to get over ourselves. (For the record, it wasn't myself I needed to get over..it was the author of the blog.) Her response to my apology was to say it wasn't good enough (it was called 'ass-kissing', I believe) and to post a picture of a models butt. Again...oookaaay.

So, due to her past history of prying into people's personal lives and my own history of being unfairly (and unsuccessfully) bitch-slapped by her, I tend to be on Kate's side.

I firmly believe that if ANYONE needs to get over themselves, it's DG.

Whoa. Kevin, I'm sorry tha... (Below threshold)

Whoa. Kevin, I'm sorry that was so long. I wanted to make sure I kept it straight.

I have to wonder why...if s... (Below threshold)
A lurker:

I have to wonder why...if she really wants this to end, that Kate provided a link to this page. If it were me, I would want to put this whole, ugly episode behind me, not add fuel to the fire.

P.S. I am not a troll...I read blogs, but don't have one. Leaving my name would mean nothing to anyone because I rarely comment on anything I read.

Lurker, in all fairness, th... (Below threshold)

Lurker, in all fairness, this is Kevin's blog and he's welcome to post what he likes.

Stevie, the other person who'd been involved in the Zander ordeal was Kate.

For all others, as I told Kevin in an e-mail, assembled as he's done here, my comments are snarkier and meaner than I'd like to believe I was capable of ever sounding. But, there's also no comparison. When arranged as they are here, I can see that it does appear that I "have it in" for Kate.

The truth is - it doesn't matter. Not in the great big (edited out "online" per an e-mail conversation) outside world. I also don't believe that I should have to sit idly by and NOT say anything in my defense on my own site. Just as Kevin is free to post his thoughts here and as Kate is free to post on her site, I too should have that right. Kevin says I should have taken responsibility and not allowed the comments to continue. If that's the case, the same should have been asked of Kate. And, it should hold true here as well. There aren't different standards for behavior based on who's backing who, are there?

My site is where I bitch and rant. Or muse and wax melancholic. If I write something that others feel the need to comment upon....that's what comments are for. I chose not to delete the original offending comment because I don't normally censor my visitors unless it directly advocates something illegal. (I've done that ONCE) My entry defending my right to post what I want on my site was to let people know I wasn't expecting others to fight my battles. I'm a big girl and I take care of things on my own. I don't, and haven't, advocated ANY action against Kate on- or offline - not personally or otherwise. It's totally unnecessary.

Joanie:You have th... (Below threshold)


You have the right to post whatever you want.

You also have the responsibility to accept the consequences. Free speech means you are free to speak, not that you are absolved of responsibility for your actions.

You have deliberately gone to and fro on a myriad of blogs, inciting other people with inflammatory commentary, making "diagnoses" about a person whom you have never met face-to-face. You have encouraged others --including other health care professionals, who should also have known better--when THEY made such "diagnoses", sight unseen.

Your breach of professional canons and your abuse of your calling as a nurse is beneath mere contempt. Your lack of interest in accepting any measure of responsibility for this debacle, despite your deliberate attempts to provoke such a response with your unprofessional public "diagnoses", is...

predictable, I suppose.

I agree with you completely... (Below threshold)

I agree with you completely, Bill. I only hope that Kate has the venom necessary to follow this up with the appropriate legal action before Da Goddess and Tracie leave another victim behind.

Brenda,I don't know ... (Below threshold)

I don't know if legal action is going to accomplish anything.
I don't think Joanie has done anything to warrant legal action, likewise Tracie.
If you think they have done something wrong they only thing you can do is tell them.

Let me clarify my comment..... (Below threshold)
A Lurker:

Let me clarify my comment...

I simply meant to say that if Kate really wanted this to end, she wouldn't have kept the links pointing to her daughters post on her page (after being asked to remove them) and would stop linking to all the unpleasantness this has caused. It would end, if she would let it.

I am an outsider, perhaps not "qualified" to respond in your comments, but being on the outside looking in, I can see that no one is mentioning that Kate is perpetuating this by the links she's providing. I would have never found this mess had it not been for Kate "pointing the way" to it all. I was a reader on her site, and followed the link that she provided.

Had that been my child, I would have been mortified and not wanted anyone to go and see what she did. I certainly wouldn't provide the link to my shame!! This could end here, if people would let it, but instead I see it getting uglier and uglier. A tit for a tat? Is that the blogging mentality? Yes, it was terrible that CPS was called, but will lawsuits or "paybacks" accomplish anything other than provide more fuel for the fires of blogdom? Can't you people ever just let something drop and move on? Is it the mob mentality that urges you all on? Maybe it's a good thing that I'm not a part of your world. I don't think I could compete here. I don't think I would want to compete here.

That's all! You won't hear from me again!!

Just to clarify - Nobody is... (Below threshold)

Just to clarify - Nobody is threatening anyone with lawsuits. If the DA and CPS deceide to take action against the person who made the false report I'm sure none of us (Kate included) will ever know.

I'm going to take a break f... (Below threshold)

I'm going to take a break from eating my sandwich to weigh in here as well.

I considered myself to be a friend (as much a friend as you can be sight unseen on the Internet) to BOTH of these women. I've "known" Joanie longer, true.

The fact of the matter is that -- and I've been guilty of fanning some of the embers myself, I suppose -- all of this nonsense, every last bit of it, must STOP and it has to stop NOW. Because it's now painfully evident that there are readers of Joan's blog -- and possibly Kate's as well -- who are willing and able to take this whole thing to levels we can only dare to imagine.

I'm not sure what I would do if in either Joan's or Kate's shoes and I sure hope I never have to find out. Blogging was meant to be entertaining and -- if you are lucky -- enlightening. This is the kind of enlightenment I can do without.

I'm also very sad that friendship with either of these bloggers appears at this point to be a mutually-exclusive proposition. I don't like having to make choices like that. I would be willing to bet there are quite a few out there who are/were regular readers of both blogs.

This is all getting to be way too much like "Lord of the Flies" here for me.

Okay, back to work with me!

Ahh, the joys of hatered. M... (Below threshold)

Ahh, the joys of hatered. My Sister who has a blog of her own posted on this topic, and I was trying to figure out what the hell has people so enraged and full of hatred, so she sent me this link to catch up.. Dear god people, mind your own damn business, and stop letting your personal feelings get involved in trival matters such as these.. I see jelousey in spades for what Kate may have, and contempt.. to try and destroy a family based on your hatred is just stupid. Dont like her, then go about your business, and leave her be... As for the CALL.. if this is a military spouse living on base.. and there is child neglect/abuse what-ever, the MP's would of been ontop of her pretty quick.

I just wanted to say that you all should drop it, move on, and let it go.. Or do us all a favour stand back to back take 10 paces, turn and fire, and get it done so us other people in Blog land can move on already.. For a bunch of grown people you sure act like that 12 year old.

Jeff,Yes and no.<br ... (Below threshold)

Yes and no.
Yes in this case but it should serve as an object lesson to everyone on how these things can get out of hand, what can happen and what not to do.

From Joanie's comment above... (Below threshold)

From Joanie's comment above:

"The truth is - it doesn't matter. Not in the great big online world..."

Thank you so much for clearing that up. So we can all run willy nilly around the internet defaming, smearing, and casting aspersions as we like at whomsoever we like because when confronted with the evidence we can just say, "It doesn't matter"?

What a relief.


David she meant to say OUTS... (Below threshold)

David she meant to say OUTSIDE not ONLINE. Your comment is valid in either.

When you spread rumors like this in the outside world the have the potential to be just as if no more destructive.

I am utterly astounded that... (Below threshold)

I am utterly astounded that anyone would go to this much work to gather someones comments. Comments that aren't even available available anymore.

This whole post starts with hoping a comment would be deleted to end the crap...then fuels the flames? I don't get it.






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