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John Kerry's Viet Nam flashback

When John Kerry gave his testimony before the United States, he stated that he had committed war crimes in Viet Nam, including participating in "free fire zones."

Like a lot of people critical of Kerry, I chalked that up to a load of codswallop, like most of his stories of his tour of duty in Viet Nam. But recent events have me reconsidering that judgment.

The "free fire zones" were a creation of the Viet Nam war. In those designated areas, any and all people were to be considered hostile and legitimate targets. That's probably where the phrase "kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out" came from -- or, if not, it certainly embodied that concept.

Recently, Kerry has put up a petition on his web site calling for President Bush to fire Karl Rove over his alleged role in the Valerie Plame mess. Now, there is currently a grand jury investigating that matter, and it is my understanding that Rove has received a letter from the grand jury clearly stating that he is NOT a target of their investigation. Nonetheless, Kerry is adopting the "fire 'em all and let God sort 'em out" attitude towards Rove.

Poor Senator Kerry. I never realized his three months in Viet Nam would have such tragic consequences. Can't someone help the poor man?


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Comments (42)

Can't someone help the p... (Below threshold)

Can't someone help the poor man?

Sometimes you get to a point where you ask yourself "Why would I want to?". Kerry crossed that threshold for me long ago. He entered the morass and just became a bigger one.

Well really, he has to do s... (Below threshold)
Bill M:

Well really, he has to do something to get back in the limelight. Making an ass of himself worked so well before, I guess he figured he'd try it again.

Actually, there is at least... (Below threshold)

Actually, there is at least one reference to letting God sort the dead much earlier than Vietnam. During the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars in France (roughly 1209-1229... see wikipedia for more info), the Christian army came to the city of Beziers. When the citizens refused to surrender the Cathars (who were seen as heretics) in their midst, the bishop leading the army is rumored to have said (roughly) "Slay them all! God will know his own."

I signed with my real name:... (Below threshold)

I signed with my real name: James Bond. No really, that's my name.

We just can't have an advisor to the President outing deep double background super duper covert undercover agents.

John Kerry is performing a real service!

Laboring to type through my... (Below threshold)

Laboring to type through my laughing fits, the amswer to your question is NO!.... the man is beyond helping....

Could Mr. Kerry get out of ... (Below threshold)
Be Le:

Could Mr. Kerry get out of Viet-Nam and get Medals (after less than six months of service!!!) if he had been born in a poor American family?

I haven't really jumped int... (Below threshold)

I haven't really jumped into this Rove mess, as I am waiting for more real facts to emerge. I do have a question though, do they really write to tell people they aren't the target of a GJ investigation?

...do they really write ... (Below threshold)
Bill M:

...do they really write to tell people they aren't the target of a GJ investigation?

Yes, surprising as it may seem, they do. I'm no lawyer, but I'd bet it has something to do with the 5th Admendment. If you were called to testify and were a target of the investigation and did not know it, you could say something to incriminate yourself, not knowing that you were a target. It could then be used against you, but it would violate your right to not testify against yourself. Or something like that. I'm sure there are some lawyer-types here who could explain it better!

Bill, I'm asking if people ... (Below threshold)

Bill, I'm asking if people are informed if they are not the target. Obviously they'd let you know if you were the target.

There is a difference betwe... (Below threshold)

There is a difference between being a target of an investigation and the subject of an investigation. Being a subject means they're looking at you. Being a target means they think you did something and they're trying to build a case (this is oviously a simplistic explanation.) In Rove's case, he is a subject. That's why you'll always see his lawyer saying "he's not a target" hoping that people will think he's not being investigated. From my understanding, he has been notified he is a subject.

Chris, What document... (Below threshold)

What documentation supports your stated understanding, besides some speculation you read in the NYT?
Has some investigator violated his oath and shown you classified or LE sensitive documents? FD 302's? Affidavits for search warrants?
(Hint, don't answer that, you would become a target yourself)
From what I've read, especially now that the Cooper info has been released, there is no "there, there" about Rove.
The real questions are why Miller is still sitting in Club Fed refusing to cooperate and how long the MSM will keep pushing this nonsense.

<a href="http://rightthinki... (Below threshold)

John Kerry is a hypocrite

But I feel sorry for the man, he becomes more of a joke every day.

John Kerry is a horse's ass... (Below threshold)
Harry Balz:

John Kerry is a horse's ass

I'll cut to the chase - Joh... (Below threshold)
Ted kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douchebag:

I'll cut to the chase - John Kerry is a piece of shit

So with all this Kerry bash... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

So with all this Kerry bashing, I am sure all of you did your time in Vietnam. And from the one comment, it must have been for more than 6 months. Or are you defending our country in Iraq? Even for 6 months or less? Oh no, I am sure you are one of those Republicans who feel there is no need to serve, since you do so much sitting on the sidelines cheerleading. Sad, the little respect you pugies give those who serve our great country. Sad..

But the real point (for me)... (Below threshold)

But the real point (for me) is that Kerry is just following the standard Dem/Lib/leftist pattern: assume that all Repubs & conservatives are guilty of something, demand that they resign until proven innocent (which can then become an endless game of accusations based on nothing and demands for resignations or nomination withdrawals), and then suggest that he 'resigned under a cloud of suspicion' and imply that he must have been guilty of something because he resigned.

Joe Mama:Your inab... (Below threshold)
Ted Kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douchebag:

Joe Mama:

Your inability to grasp the key issue at hand is not surprising, as it appears to be a trait shared by many of the MoveOn.org and anti-USA leftists.

The key issue is the hypocrisy of you and your bretheren. Last month you were all beating your breasts and decrying the plight of the detainees at Gitmo. How many times did one of your ilk say that the detainees were being denied due process under the law? Yet you have already convicted Rove and say he should resign. That's baltant hypocrisy and is another reason why the Democratic party is in ruins.

P.S. As far as Kerry is concerned, I respect him for his military service. I have yet to find anythign else to respect him for as he has proven to be a politically spineless partisan hack more concerned about his image than in serving his constituents.

I have no inability to gras... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

I have no inability to grasp the issue. Rove outed Plame, and he should be fired for it. Just a though, did you guys ever wonder why you have been having to spin so much lately? Don't you ever sit back and think, wow it seems we need to do a lot of spinning the news to meet our needs, maybe there is a problem here. And calling Kerry a partisan hack is laughable . So i guess you are saying Republicans these days are not partisan. I can't believe you can say that with a straight face with all partisanship in the Whitehouse and with top Republicans today. And by the way for you people who did not respond to my question, I did serve in the military, but even if I didn't I would have the highest respect for those who have served this great country. If you are going to attack Kerry, why not have a little class and leave his military service out of it. Especially if you can't meet or beat the service Kerry gave to this country. And by the way, since yall care so much about our country, get out there and sign up, have your sons and daughter's sign up, OR SHUT UP!

Who is this John Kerry char... (Below threshold)

Who is this John Kerry character you speak of? Wasn't he in BJ and the Bear? Which one was he again?

RE: Joe Mama's post (July 1... (Below threshold)

RE: Joe Mama's post (July 14, 2005 12:57 PM)

And by the way, since yall care so much about our country, get out there and sign up, have your sons and daughter's sign up, OR SHUT UP!

This merits a response since I hear it trotted out every once in a while and always by a dove questioning a hawk.

So in order to support the military, I or a family member must enlist?

OK, by that logic, if I support the space program, I must become an astronaut.

If I support the ACLU, I must become a lawyer.

If I support pro-choice, I must have an abortion.

If I support the NFL, I must become a football player.

If I support healthcare, I must become a doctor.

If I support public education, I must become a teacher.

Need I go on? Pretty asinine, isn't it.

Joe Mama:I'd be mo... (Below threshold)
Ted kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douchebag:

Joe Mama:

I'd be more impressed if you showed at least some ability to deviate from the MoveOn.Org playbook for just a minute.

Your partisan comment is hilarious. Reid has referred to the President as a loser, Dean has said that Republicans nevere worked an honest day in their life, Biden has referred to the adminstration as brain dead, Durbin has compared U.S. military personnel to Nazis and you say that Republicans are the only ones that are partisan? That suggests that you are either joking, shockingly naive or at least mildly retarded.

By the way, Rove was not a target of the grand jury, he has testified and he told Cooper he could reveal that he was one of his sources. That doesn't sound like someone hiding. Why don't you wait for the Special Prosecutor to complete his investigation and determine whether or not Rove broke the law. My guess is he's probably better positioned to opine on Rove's gult or innocence.

Isn't it funny that howard Dean once said Bin laden hasn't been convicted of masterminding 9/11 but now says that Rove is definitely guilty even thought the grand jusry hasn't completed its work. That's why you guys keep losing elections -your hypocrites and it shows.

P.S. Not that it matters, but I did serve and I did say that I respected Kerry's service. Seeing as how my son is only 9 I think I'll wait before having him immediately enlist per your recommendation. Just because Kerry served, it doesn't mean that he gets a free pass or should instantly be President. If that were the case, Bush's dad would have served 2 terms and Dole would have been elected. Lastly, I love it when a Democrat tells someone who doesn't agree with them to shut up. if we did, you would go scurrying to the nearest ACLU lawyer.

RE Anoymous Drivel's post:... (Below threshold)
Ted Kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douche Bag:

RE Anoymous Drivel's post:

"If I support the NFL, I must become a football player."

Here's a couple more examples -

If I support MoveOn.Org I must have first had a frontal lobotomy

If I suuport Democrats I must always assume that my country is always at fault

Well I don't know Anonymous... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

Well I don't know AnonymousDr, are all those things you mentioned as important as serving your country at war time? And you are the patriot, comparing things like the NFL with the war in iraq. Yes, if you support the war, you should be serving, if you are of serving age, in adaquate physical condition. Your excuses show your lack of respect for the soldiers serving. I have enormous respect for them, even if I don't support a lying, cheating, corrupt Bush Administration. You idiots try to make people believe that if they don't support Bush, they don't support the soldiers. That is complete Drivel. What you really support is big tax breaks, more money in your pocket, and turn your back on corruption, the death's of our brave soldier's, and destruction of our country. But hey, as long as you line your pockets with a few more bucks, I guess it's all worth it. And then you can sleep better at night justifying it by saying you support the war. Friggin cowards, thats what you are. Not you Ted, at least you have the decency to acknowledge those that serve. But the rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Comparing the NFL with fighting along our brave soldiers. That is just sick, sick.

There once was a man named ... (Below threshold)
Ted Kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douche Bag:

There once was a man named Kerry
Whose voting record was very scary
He flips and he flops,
while his poll numbers drop
and his positions seem contrary

There once was a candidate ... (Below threshold)
Ted Kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douche Bag:

There once was a candidate from Mass
Whose wife had a very fat ass
It wasn't rosey and pink
as you might think,
but was rich, puckered and passed gas

Cowards, how easy it is to ... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

Cowards, how easy it is to criticize others, but how difficult it is to take a close look at ourselves. How easy it is to take the easy road, when the hard road involves sacrifice. What sad pathetic lives republicans live, when in the end their greed and lack of compassion will only lead to a need for explanation, when and if they face Jesus. I should have sympathy for them, I need to ask forgiveness each night for that. That is one of the hardest things a Christian must do, forgive those who sin. I will work on that, and why don't you guys work on being good christians too. Well, of course, that is if you are indeed christians.

RE: Joe Mama's post (July 1... (Below threshold)

RE: Joe Mama's post (July 14, 2005 03:02 PM)

Well first things first. Thanks for your service. Where did you serve and why did your service cease?

Second, I question your ability to evaluate logic. How you can discern that I "compar[ed] things like the NFL with the war in iraq" is beyond me. It was an exhibition of logic, not an equating or comparing of merit (not that those other jobs are unworthy, either).

But that's a heckuva mark you've set. That would mean that the vast majority of Americans are unpatriotic according to your standards. I don't buy that perception and think Americans can be patriotic in many different ways. Openly supporting their mission and helping finance their tasks are entirely patriotic endeavors and much more so than all of those who demonize either their work at every opportunity or their leaders who try, but may fail because they are imperfect, to lead them in crisis.

But, to be fair, I'll pose the question to the active and inactive members of the miltary reading Wizbang. Do you think that one must serve in the military to be patriotic? Do you find those who support your mission openly and publicly to be patriotic? Do you regard citizens who do not enlist in lower regard than your peers?

No, I do not think you have... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

No, I do not think you have to serve to be patriotic. But it is hard to stomach all the criticism of someone who did serve during wartime, by those sitting on the sidelines waving Bush banners. If you care so much, get off your lazy ass and go help the effort you so support. And how can anyone mock the war record of Kerry, and at the same time support Bush. His service in the military was a joke, a discrace by someone with money connections. He showed a lack of character, a lack of disipline, and cowardess for not offering to go overseas. As Reid said, he is a loser. A drunk and a loser. I refuse to support him like the blind sheep in this country, and on this forum. I can't believe his followers aren't seeing what is right in front of their faces, he lied, lied, and lied consistently. That's all he does is lie to push his agenda. I am sorry, but lying is immoral and I can't support it. Republican leaders have had to spin so much, they must be getting dizzy. Do your really think the average american is so stupid they will keep falling for the spin and lies. I know you hope so, but they won't. And thank Jesus for that. I am sick of what this country is becoming, full of hate, racism, and disrespect for our fellow americans. Stop the nonsense, enough is enough. And if you still think the war is worth it, then put your life on the line for it. If not, then how can you criticize those who don't. Put your money where your mouth is. And yes, I served in the Army in the mid 80s. Not during war time, but I served.

A tip to PATCH.Valer... (Below threshold)

A tip to PATCH.
Valerie Plame has not been a deep cover CIA agent for 9 years!
Didn't anyone read Coopers email account of his conversation with Rove? Rove told him if he printed a story about the VP sending Wilson to Niger he would be wrong. Someone at the CIA sent him-maybe it was his wife who worked there.(Or something very close to this statement). If Cooper does not belive this was a crime why are all the hand wringing liberal calling for Roves head. Maybe politics HUMMMM?

Well no, according to Repub... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

Well no, according to Republicans she was not a deep cover agent, well unless you read the article from her former REPUBLICAN collegue, who says she has been. But keep on spinning, not that it will help you any.

Joe Mama:Since you... (Below threshold)
Ted kennedy Stole Granny's Old Douche Bag:

Joe Mama:

Since you apparently hate George Bush because he didn't serve overseas, then I assume that you feel likewise about Bill Clinton. If nto, please explain this inconsistency.

No Bush, didn't serve in a combat zone. But as a former serviceman (as you say you are) I am surprised that you don't recognize the fact that anybody who flys a jet has balls. We always respected the pilots we dealt with because we recognized the skill involved in flying a jet and the fact that their is little margin for error in doing so.

Having served myself, I appreciate your service. But quite frankly, I find it a little comical that although you didn't serve during war time, you contend that Bush is a coward for not doing so.

You also appear to applaud Reid and others' remarks about the President while simultaneously implying that the disrespect shown to others is the GOP's fault. Neither side is blameless and for you to pin it all on one side is self-serving, intellectually dishonest and highly hypocritical. Calling the president braindead, a lsoer, etc.. does not help correct any of the problems in our country. I didn't like it when Dan Burton called Bill CLinton a scumbag and I don't like some of the Democrats' over the top rhetoric now. You want to hate Bush and the Republicans, fine - it's a free country. But as long as you keep your self-righteous blinders on and assume that it's all the other side's fault then you are part of the problem, and not part of the solution.

To all the Kerry lovers,<br... (Below threshold)

To all the Kerry lovers,
He did serve and was awarded medals. I respect that he went. OK fine I got a few myself in Korea and Nam. Big deal they handed medals like candy in Nam but not so many in 3 months(you got to wonder). You know only the Boston Globe suppossely has seen his complete military files and he was dischaged with a less than honorabe discharge. What is he hiding???
But it was after he returned and disgraced his uniform, country and the troops who are never coming back. He is now a nobody senator that nobody likes or listens too like Kennedy and I'm sure most of the country hopes that he will retreat into his wifes wealthy bosom and disappear.

Joe you have not been payin... (Below threshold)

Joe you have not been paying attention to what is going on. Please tell me what crime Rove has commited. You sound like Rove told Cooper that Wilsons wife was a deep cover agent named Valerie Plame. For crying out load he never even mention her name or job at the CIA! This is documented.
What you should be spending your time doing is finding out why the NYTimes has thrown Miller to the wolfs. She recieved a letter as did Cooper over a year ago from Rove to go ahead and use his name in any story they printed concerning this subject. Why has the Times not released her files to keep her out of jail.They have had Roves release for over a year. One has to wonder. They both were called to the GJ on the same subject of who outed Plame. Cooper finally said it was Rove but for some reason Miller is in jail.

To Joe Mama.I guess ... (Below threshold)

To Joe Mama.
I guess by reading your statement about lying and sin you must really hate Clinton. He not only convinced a young 21 year girl that he was in love with her but got to give him oral sex in the Oval Office!!!! THen he lied to a grand jury and lost his law license.
Sooooo I guess we can both agree that Clinton should have been fired because he was convicted in a court of law. Lets wait for the GJ findings about Rove before we throw him out. OK? As a good Christan you sould agree with that.

As far as Rove, if Bush is ... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

As far as Rove, if Bush is a man of his word, he will fire him. When he said he would fire anyone in his Administration involved in the leak, even I believed that to be true. Now seeing he is not going to do that just shows his words mean nothing, which is a discrace to our country. I don't know if Rove will be indicted for what he did, but what I do know that he was involved, and should be fired. We do not need people like him in high places, especially where national security is involved. And I know you won't believe this, but I would be saying the same thing if he was a democrat. Corruption will ruin our country if not properly monitored and dealt with. Rove needs to go, period.

Duh Joe - if he's not indic... (Below threshold)
Phinneas Von Finkelstein:

Duh Joe - if he's not indicted then what he did was not illegal - i.e. he didn't break the law. Why should he be fired if the legal system says he's innocent? By the way, answer the question - did you believe Clinton disgraced the country with his lies or did you give him a free pass?

Oh, so Clinton's lies are a... (Below threshold)
Joe Mama:

Oh, so Clinton's lies are a crime, but the Bush Administration can lie daily and that's ok. Hypocrites, no wonder Jesus mentions them so much in the bible. Sure Clinton did something immoral,but it didn't involve killing 1750 plus americans and over 10,000 iraqis. To compare the two is just ludicrous. What clinton did was a personal issue, it had no effect on the rest of the country. So enough of the bs comparisons. Even you must be smarter than that.

Joe Mama:The "Chic... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Joe Mama:

The "Chickenhawk" has been discussed ad nauseum, and thoroughly dismantled. Please find a fresh talking point from Moveon.org or Democratic Underground; that one's plumb tuckered out.


The Republicans must be hap... (Below threshold)

The Republicans must be happy to see how well their talking points are being internalized by the true believers. Despite the Repubs efforts to focus everything on whether Rove is indicted, the fact is that the President said on more than one occasion that he would fire anyone who was involved in the leak. He never mentioned anything about indictments. And by the way, prosecutors choose not to indict for a number of reasons, including how hard a case will be to win. If Rove isn't indicted then we certainly have to acknowledge that fact, but it hardly means he was "proven innocent." And by the way, Clinton was never indicted or "convicted in a court of law." Hey, wait a minute. That means Clinton was proven innocent, too!

This is not just hairsplitting. I don't think it's too much to ask that the behavior of high officials in the White House be held to a higher standard than whether or not they can be indicted. The President pledged to take action if anyone in his administration was involved in the leaks. Now he seems to be waffling on that, hiding behind the "ongoing investigation" canard, even though the question of firing Rove is separate from the investigation. The fact is that Cooper's notes clearly show that Rove was involved in the leak, and Rove's lawyer acknowledges their accuracy. If Bush feels that there are mitigating circumstances that cause him to retract his earlier words, fine, let him say so and justify his actions. But saying that no one in the White House is allowed to comment, when Rove's lawyer, who explicitly represents him, is all over the media, is ridiculous. Republicans had great sport with what they called Clintonian parsing of words. How is this different?

Excellent points, Chris. I ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Excellent points, Chris. I just have a few questions:

1) Could you please cite some of the "numerous times" President Bush stated that? Dates and links to accepted sources, please.

2) Could you please comment on Attorney Bill Clinton's license to practice law in Arkansas?

3) When discussing Constitutional procedures with law, "impeachment" is considered equivalent with "indictment," while "conviction" pretty much translates. Wasn't Clinton formally impeached by the House?

4) "Due Process" has been the battle cry of the Left about Guantanamo (regardless of the fact that the detainees have, in fact, received exactly that in accordance with the Geneva Convention). Are you calling on President Bush to interfere in an ongoing Grand Jury investigation and punish Rove before that Grand Jury has reached its conclusions?


Joe, Clinton sat back and l... (Below threshold)

Joe, Clinton sat back and let almost of a million Rwandas huti (wHatever) get murdered in a war of genocide and did nothing to save them. In fact good ol Madiline recommended to the UN not to interfere.
It took 2 years for Clinton to final decide to do something in the baltics. Carprt bombing. How many innocent cilvilians were killed by US bombs during this bombing? Now lets talk about our embassis in Africa that were bombed by terriorst and don,t forget the US Cole getting hit. Almost forgot the first bombing of the twin towers in NY in 93. He called that a civil crime.All this was done by terrorist during Clintons term in Office. By the way Clinton was discussing this on the phone while getting a BJ. Lets see OH YES Clinton in response to something IRAQ did sent in over 400 cruise milles into Badaq. Wonder how many cilivians were killed??? You do know of course that almost 400,000 cililians (old&young)with bullets in their heads have been found in IRAG. I guess thats Bushs fault. Your boy Clinton sat back and did absolutely nothing in the fight against the Muslim terroist. I guess he felt the pain of the murdered. Did he ever visit or talk to the families of the americans kill by terrorist in Africa? I dooubt it. Clinton and Hillary hated the military and this was known the day he took office.
By the way did you know that clinton in his last days in office gave the nations top medal of freedom to governor Faubus of Arkansa? This guy was the poster child of southern segragation. You must know that it took a Republican president(Ike) to send troops to Little Rork to let blacks go to school. Check with Norman Rockwell famous painting of Federal Masghalls escorting a black child into a school. Oh yes it was Nixon that passed the first anti segragation laws. Clinton was,is and will always be a closet segragationist. He has been using blacks for his own political gains. If Not please tell me what he did for the blacks during his 8 years in office. None of his cabinet or white house staff were black except of course his secretary. Oh yes it did appoint a couple of blacks to be segion general one of which stated that masturbation should be taught in schools.Don't tell me the Welform law that he signed was his idea. He vetoed the Republican bill twice before the polls showed that he should sign it.
Joe I'm totally agaist corrupt politicians, either party, but for you to defend Clinton who while in office did more to allow the terrorist to expand their power is beyond me. He was so wrapped up in his impeachment(for lying to a GJ-not fot for sex) that he allowed terroist to enter this country and train to fly airline planes. Reno even went so far as to make sure that the cIA could not talk or share info with the FBI about terrorist activities. Clinton was resposible for 911 period. It all happened on his watch. Bush was only in office 9 months before 911. No way all this could have been planned in this time frame.

Excuse the spelling i'm used to spell check.

To Jay Tea1) Could... (Below threshold)

To Jay Tea

1) Could you please cite some of the "numerous times" President Bush stated that? Dates and links to accepted sources, please.
Presidential Press Conference, 6/10/04
QUESTION: Given -- given recent developments in the CIA leak case, particularly Vice President Cheney's discussions with the investigators, do you still stand by what you said several months ago, a suggestion that it might be difficult to identify anybody who leaked the agent's name?

THE PRESIDENT: That's up to --

QUESTION: And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. Attorney to find the facts.

Scott McClellan Press Briefing, 9/29/03
MR. McCLELLAN: Dana, I mean, think about what you're asking. If you have specific information to bring to our attention --

Q No, but you say that --

MR. McCLELLAN: -- that suggests White House involvement. There are anonymous reports all the time in the media. The President has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.

2. Bill Clinton voluntarily gave up his license to practice law as part of an agreement with Special Counsel Ray. That agreement may have also included a pledge by Ray not to indict Clinton. Does this make Clinton "innocent?" No. Neither does it make him guilty. Clinton didn't want to be indicted, so he gave up something he probably wasn't going to use anyway. Ray may not have wanted to indict him, for any number of reasons. This only supports my point, that Fitzgerald's decision to indict Rove or not will only establish whether Rove was indictable, not whether his actions were right or wrong. The Republicans would love to have us foprget that.

3. I'm not a lawyer, so I'll leave it to others to determine whether an article of impeachment is the legal equivalent of an indictment. I know it models the purpose of an indictment in the impeachment process, I'm not sure it's considered a legal equivalent. This isn't just splitting hairs. There is a certain amount of legal rigor required for an indictment. An article of impeachment is much more of a political device.

4. There you go again. Calls to fire Rove have nothing to do with due process. The decision whether he stays or goes should not be decided by the Special Prosecutor. Or are the Bush standards so low that you get to keep your job as long as you can stay out of the slammer?






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