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Viva la France?

I know I've done my share of France-bashing in the past, but the current Muslim riots wracking the country have me doing the unthinkable -- feeling sorry for them.

There is a certain element of "hoist by their own Petain" (a phrase I shamelessly steal from Bigwig's utterly brilliant "Military History Of France") glee I have, a certain amount of schadenfreude, but I'm often reminded of something my mother used to say: "everyone has a purpose in life, even if it is to serve as a bad example."

What's going on in France is a warning to the rest of the world: this is what can happen when you combine unrestrained immigration, unenforced assimilation, and unfettered nationalism, all embodied in a single group. France has a large body of unassimilated North African Muslims, who have established their own enclaves entirely separate from the larger French culture (and no, that's not quite an oxymoron) surrounding them. They've been allowed to build their own culture and society and rules, and now are looking to establish that as a legally-recognized fact.

And if they have to burn a few thousand cars, destroy hundreds of businesses, and assault countless French citizens and police officers (one woman in a wheelchair was set on fire), so be it.

We could be facing a similar situation here in the US. We have a huge illegal immigration population, one that is refusing to assimilate (even to the point of learning English), and several radical groups among them that endorse the secession of large parts of the United States into a separate nation. (La Raza, anyone?)

As much as I enjoy seeing the French in such discomfort, it does not bode well for the rest of the world. I'd much rather have to put up with the arrogant, elitist, duplicitous, vile French than the mobs that are attempting to supplant them.


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Viva la France?:

» Weapons of Mass Destruction linked with Chirac Draws a Line in the Sand (Sort Of)

» Caerdroia linked with Living Down to a Reputation

» Oblogatory Anecdotes linked with French Riots Claim First Victim

» Donkey Stomp linked with Paris Riots

» Below The Beltway linked with Paris Burning

» Conservative Outpost linked with Quick Links

» Conservative Outpost linked with Quick Links

» Uncle Sam's Cabin linked with Riot Control

» Don Surber linked with Euro-sion

» North Canton Airline and Storm Door Company linked with Required Reading, Francolytic Edition

» bRight & Early linked with A Little Late?

» La Shawn Barber's Corner linked with How Empires End

» Secure Liberty linked with Paris Burns

» Iowa Voice linked with French Riots Continue Part Deux

» All Things Beautiful linked with The Metastasizing Anger in France

» New testing weblog linked with this is a test by TypePad support

» Rant Fever linked with France Burning

Comments (51)

I don't think anyone is goi... (Below threshold)

I don't think anyone is going to learn until the killing starts.

I don't think they'd be dum... (Below threshold)

I don't think they'd be dumb enough to try this here. After all, a lot of the civilians over here are armed. Try burning an old lady on a bus in my town and you'll get yourself shot.

I'm pretty sure US mayors a... (Below threshold)

I'm pretty sure US mayors and governors won't wait 10 days before establishing a curfew- more like 3. And if the curfew didn't work, martial law after 7 days seems like what we'd expect- certainly, the national guard would have been deployed instead of beat cops.

I've been amazed that the police there seem to be trying to persuade people to stop rioting- the number of arrests seems incredibly low, if the scale and violence of the riots described in the news media are to be believed.

Unlike some others I don't ... (Below threshold)

Unlike some others I don't France's problem as one of Muslims carrying on an intifada. I think this is an indication of what happens when you have a combination of welfare state, unrestricted immigration and a socialist based econmy with high unemployment. Eventually, the balloon implodes.

The immigration here is a d... (Below threshold)
Dr. Scott:

The immigration here is a different thing. Islam is a completely violent and unforgiving culture, caught in the 9th century, with different institutions and morals, and violently fighting in a 1400 year battle that unfortunately modern Christian and Western, particularly European and Liberal culture has forgetten -- Europe is a dying animal, being led to the slaughter. However, immigrants from Latin American to the US come from a Western European, devout Christian Catholic culture with similar attidutes toward family, economics, and religion. The differences are basically language, and some institutional defects (such as attitudes toward corruption, etc.)-- much easier for assimilation and productive activity. We need to keep our current wars straight, and not confuse the issue.

What's already been written... (Below threshold)

What's already been written here (^^, all, including Jay Tea), and, I commented on another website the other day -- one that's been covering the rioting in France -- that this brings to mind many habitats and entire towns/communties in past human history: surrounded by moats, high impermiable walls with watch towers and armed guards, built into cliffs accessible only by ropes and ladders, on walled structures in the middle of lakes with spikes all around in the water otherwise...

Our ancestors didn't resort to that sort of "normal" family daily life for no reason. We have guns today for some but the motivations remain the same, I think: keep out the hoardes who pillage, plunder, murder and rampage. I think it's useless to assume you can reason with the humans who resort to pillaging, plundering, all of that, you just have to build and act accordingly if you want to survive them and the damage they do.

Not like many haven't figured that out already, just saying, waiting for people like this to calm down or modify themselves for the better seems a lost cause. France -- d'oh -- waited. And that's after they failed to project their future given a course of unprotective actions.

But, someone please explain... (Below threshold)

But, someone please explain to me the swarming, rioting behavior. I completely do not understand it.

Dr. Scott: you musta' miss... (Below threshold)

Dr. Scott: you musta' missed the L. A. Riots. There were more than one, by the way.

I disagree that the multi-culturalism standard that Europe has been going for and trying to accommodate is unique to their continent. The U.S. has similar problems for similar, if not exactly the same, reasons.

It is my understanding that... (Below threshold)

It is my understanding that Chirac is going to meet with "community leaders" from the rioting areas, to work out the terms of France's surrender no doubt.

We should all unite.<... (Below threshold)

We should all unite.

We are ALL Frenchmen now.

Um, maybe not.

Until the civilized world d... (Below threshold)

Until the civilized world decides to take a stand, and put an end to the seepage of this Islamic sewerage, we will all be in danger. Despising both the French and the Germans for their anti-US stands in public, where it counts most, I am enjoying watching this episode play out. The French will let this go on and on, and this will occur in many other areas of Europe. So be it. When they tire of this Islamic problem, the US will be prepared for a final solution to this problem.

I can see this getting very... (Below threshold)

I can see this getting very ugly. If this keeps up we could very well see the French, Germans, and others swing to the complete opposite extreme. Facism is never very far under the surface over there, even at their socialistic height. Those western europeans are crazy like that.

Viva la Socialism!... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Viva la Socialism!

Ditto the comments re Latin... (Below threshold)

Ditto the comments re Latinos. Hell of a lot of difference between them and Muslims.

My Latino friends (in N.C.--not sure about southwest and California, but I suppose the same exists there) love the U.S., and would be more assimilated but for the language and cultural barriers we white folk are partly responsible for. It takes two to tango!

And, they think the Muslims are scarey, just like we do. . .

The French did not just "al... (Below threshold)

The French did not just "allow" the African immigrants to remain culturally seperate they actively encouraged it. they also refused to make any compromise to the immigrants language, religion &cultural background, claiming it was their responsibility to become french (read secular).

Whereas I believe it is vital immigrants do assimilate into the social & cultural mores of the society they are living in (why live there otherwise?), the host society also has a responsibility to assist this process & not "ghettoise" their immigrants.

Dear "S," no I didn't miss ... (Below threshold)
Dr. Scott:

Dear "S," no I didn't miss the LA riots, in fact I lived in LA during the riots. And at that time I was very involved in the Korean community -- it was clearly a clash of economics and culture, and by the way these riots in only a tangential way involved Hispanics. As an obvious point, the LA riots were highly contained compared to the violence that is currently sweeping France and other countries.

Re multiculturism, by any standard statistic (and there several that are regularly used for research), the US is the most multicultural society in the world. And our multiculturism starts from a completely different historical and current perspective from Europe's far more recent effort -- that is, from entreprenuerial economic transitions rather than the socialism, guilt, and welfare ideas that pervades European thinking (I have also lived in Europe for many years). To reject the historical imperatives of the modern world is not only foolish (as the Europeans are finding out) but shows a relevant lack of understanding of history -- the rise and fall (and their root causes) of various civilizations during the last 2000 years. I suggest a deep study of the Byzantine civilization, and its later conflicts with Islam, and what happens when a civilization doesn't stand up and fight. It falls.

"Final solution" Billburz? ... (Below threshold)

"Final solution" Billburz? Would you care to elaborate on that for us?

Hmmm."Fin... (Below threshold)


"Final solution" Billburz? Would you care to elaborate on that for us?

I say let's tie the buggers down and force them to listen to endless repetitions of "Muskrat Love" until they promise to give up violence.

And if they break their promise? They'll be listening to "The Love Boat" until they scream for mercy.

And will there be any? No. The Love Boat knows not of mercy.


You go Ed the Terrible.... (Below threshold)
jim b:

You go Ed the Terrible.

Looks like the Germans didn't need an Army to take France .... just a bunch of slackers.

Where the LA riots "Christi... (Below threshold)

Where the LA riots "Christian Riots"? If not, then how come the Paris riots are "Muslim Riots"?

The final solution that I r... (Below threshold)

The final solution that I refer to is the outlawing, worldwide, of the Muslim religion. If moderate, and I use the term loosely, arabs, cannot civilize their religion and control their spawn, than the world must do it for them.

If you see a situation develop where nations that control the energy destiny of the world for the next 50 years, lose control of their nations, than calamity will reign. Keep in mind that this is no longer the 14th century when Christians fought Muslims, and when the armament was equal on both sides. This is now, and the civilized world has intelligently structured the nuclear imbalance to its advantage, and in the most overwhelming percentages, about 99% to 1%.

If the 'Islamists' reign supreme, than their religion will be declared illegal, and the resultant will be the anniliation of the Muslim population. Perhaps this would be best for all!

Dr. Scott: like I wrote ea... (Below threshold)

Dr. Scott: like I wrote earlier, you musta' missed the L. A. riots (I doubt you lived there for the Watts riot, correct me if I'm wrong about that), because as per your comments, as same with a few others here and elsewhere, there's this tendency to wax poetic about a certain coziness in areas of the U.S. "that would be (just fine, peaceful, "assimilated" and such) if only (name your cultural condition here that's almost always a demand for a cultural imperative from another nation that is demanded upon Americans inorder for that peaceful/fine assimilation and such to occur."

I can wax academically well as well as anyone but about this issue, I've yet to see tomes of web-written words ever reach any resolution about this issue both in Europe AND in the U.S. by other cultures who use the "imposition" method upon the U.S. population rather than become an American, accept this country (or others, similar) as their own, and actually do what is necessary to become an American, a citizen, and actually get on with becoming a part of the country.

No, it continues even here: today many arrive in the U.S. (as they have in France, in Germany, in the U.K.) without sanction of application, screening, learning the language of where they're going before they get there, much more so studying what is involved to live a new life somewhere else and abandon what's ailing them from their origins.

France and most among the American left tries to rationalize people with bad behaviors using the country/ies for selfish, very shortterm reasons. From the look of Los Angeles today, the entire city and county, and many other areas of the country, I can tell you flat out that your comments are not in touch with reality.

Prosaic, yes, but not realistic. The U.S. has the same problem that France has, that the U.K. has about this issue and is undergoing a similar clash economically, socially and politically due to unwelcome behaviors...that are pretty standard from the look of things where the problematic groups originated but bring nothing but wrong behaviors to accommodating countries.

About "Latinos," if they want so much to be a part of America, then why are most of them, at least from Mexico, Brazil, South and Central America, able and willing to abide by the laws of the country? Do they not know how to read and write? Most do, in Spanish, which is more than adequate to visit a Consulate, ask for immigration paperwork and start the process legally, by way of application. IF they did that, they'd find that they are required, inorder to immigrate (at least where the U.S. is concerned), to learn enough English inorder to pass a verbal and written, read evaluation, swear allegiance to the U.S. flag and pass a health screening BEFORE they were granted citizenship.

No, I don't see the huge majority doing that, indicating that they are not interested in becoming an American as much as they are interested in serving themselves.

No one can even dare, honestly, to try to say that "Latinos" are some special class with endearing qualities all eager to be an American, when so many have displayed and for so long so many behaviors that disprove that.

Want to be an American? Go and apply for citizenship where you live and do what the paperwork asks of you. Because THAT's what us U.S. citizens have to do inorder to live our lives here as citizens, in every other area of our lives. And we use our real identities, our actual addresses, fill out our own applications and forms. That's what being a citizen is.

Dear RightWingLiberal -- wh... (Below threshold)
Dr. Scott:

Dear RightWingLiberal -- why weren't the LA riots "Christian riots" Hmmm, let me see -- well unlike what is happening in Europe, perhaps no religious symbolism was involve, no religious structures were targeted (several churches have been burned in Europe), no major religious group called for the violence, and no major religious group justified the violence; guess it isn't really isn't that hard to see the difference.

By they way, it is not all a religous battle right now, certainly a 50% unemployment in a stagnant, welfare French economy has something to do with it -- two tinderboxes (economic deprevation and the historical imperative of Islamic vengence) truly make for an explosive combination.

France is entirely too acad... (Below threshold)

France is entirely too academic to the point of absurdity about many issues of "liberty." They've been the country in both World Wars who was in need of rescue by other allied countries. I think they're well on their way now to having recklessly allowed a fester to reach massive infection stage and most of that is due to permissiveness in the general country. Or, unwillingness to mind their own advice that's readily available for everyone else.

billburz - how do you outla... (Below threshold)

billburz - how do you outlaw a religion?

Do you mean make it illegal to build temples, attend services, pray to Allah?

Worked well with the Cathloics in Protestant England, with the Jews in Imperial Russia, and with the Christians in the soviet union.

To -S- -- whoa, again I thi... (Below threshold)
Dr. Craig:

To -S- -- whoa, again I think you missed the point. There is nothing I implied that suggested that Hispanic immigrants shouldn't follow the law, not at all. But the issue of assimilation is also important. No, I didn't live in LA for the Watts riots, but I did live near LA at that time.

And if you want to "wax" academically as you brag you can, then at least get it right.

I will take a good deal of ... (Below threshold)

I will take a good deal of desire, mixed with proper weaponry, combined with a touch of focused cruelty and topped off with a different energy source. Or we could just be like the French I guess.

PS, we must also move Hollywood to Paris!

Allow me, Dr. Scott...there... (Below threshold)

Allow me, Dr. Scott...there are several issues being commingled on this thread by several commentors writing their own opinions in disparate fashion, not so much connected or in discussion with others but just isolated opinions, and thus, there are many of those commingled aspects to this problem being mentioned here.

Race is one problem, and religious beliefs are another. Every type of both has their differences and when you combine differences of all possible types by way of violations and presumptions upon larger populations, originating in foreign (to the recipient nation) cultures and unknown political influences, without any at least partially exacting process that the larger society can rely on being in place, then you get strange and damaging at it's worst unrest.

Race -- to be straight about it here -- fueled the L.A.riots and it seems to have fueled the New Orleans barbarism and lunacy. Not that races are any one or all of those characteristics BECAUSE of who they are, but that some people congregate in higher numbers within restricted economic areas and what you get are ghettos and slums as a result. No taxes being paid, or little of them, and human congregations see their infrastructures degrade. It's really just a case of "bad" neighborhoods being "bad" because they become worse and more incentivized people move away and take their higher taxes being paid along with them. What's left are poorer people, mostly congregating based upon "like kind" and you get rundown, deprived areas with no leadership or worse, corrupt leadership because no one challenges them, and there you go, people with resentments, no perceptions of hope and goals, and mostly it's all one racial type. And then they go ballistic...but to be honest about it, most of those going ballistic are negroid, in the past and in the present both here and in other nations.

Thus, other races try to contend with that, try to understand, but first have to get the ballistic problem into a calmer group behavior. You can't do the first until you've done the second and the second is then what people complain about and forget the first.

There are a few racial types among us humans who denigrate anyone, ANYone who tries to talk about this in straightforward terms. THAT's the obstacle to solving the problem, right there. If people can't discuss, they don't communicate. And the ugly cycle of wanton destruction and explosive emotional outbursts starts all over again.

Beverly Hills is segregated (Jewish), West Hollywood is segregated (homosexual), East L. A. is segregated (Hispanic), South Central is segregated (Black), Los Angeles major is segregated (Chinese, Korean), Santa Monica is segregated (marxist/communist)...L.A. is just one big city of segregated communities, all careful not to stay too long in someone else's territory.

The ONLY racial/national group of people who DID, effectively, assimilate were the Japanese. They had their Japantown but found after two generations that it was no longer needed...they'd all moved into normal lives as Americans elsewhere. Which is what most Italians did, Irish did, English did, etc.

I dunno, but it does not seem so much a "white" problem as one of other racial types and other politics being brought to the U.S. instead of the U.S. being accepted as precedent in their lives.

To conclude as to your question, the L.A. riots weren't "Christian" because those rioting weren't Christians. It wasn't about religion or in rebellion of religion but about sheer selfishness and disregard for the property and persons of others, complete disregard for self respect by those rioting.

Same with New Orleans.

I love to see posted commen... (Below threshold)
Drew Edmondson:

I love to see posted comments like those responding here...it reminds me that folks who pretend to follow the words of Jesus rant about exclusion when even the most basic reading of recorded words of Jesus reflects inclusion..rant about a religion that recognizes the history of the old testiment. Islam and Judism recognise the prophets of the old testiment including Abraham as a key figure. Jesus as an important prophet. It's those damn Buddists and Hindus that don't..I thank God that Communist China continues to destroy those pagans in Tibet.

The Dr. Scotts (and the Dr.... (Below threshold)

The Dr. Scotts (and the Dr. Craigs) of this world keep telling us everything is going to work out just fine!

- the Mexican government actively encourages the people that they deliberately send us not to assimilate
- George Bush and the GOP help in ways big and small. For instance, Bush appealed to "Latino" voters on the Spanish-language section of his site using a Mexican flag
- Most "Hispanic" leaders in California and elsewhere are former members of the racial separatist group MEChA. Why, even Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) is a proud former member. And, Howie Dean toured AZ in his company recently.
- The media refuses to discuss this; according to the LAT, MEChA is a "Chicano rights group". They said that *after* LA's mayor finally renounced his leader's position in that group.
- The Ford Foundation has spent dozens of millions of dollars - perhaps hundreds - promoting "multiculturalism" via groups like MALDEF, LULAC, National Council of The Race, etc. etc.

I could go on, but I'd suggest not trusting the Dr. Scott/Craigs of this world.

It would also be nice if this site would clarify its use of the nofollow tag. The trackbacks above currently don't have that tag, but the linked names do, meaning that search engines will ignore those links, like the one on my name.

oh yeah.. ya think Islam in... (Below threshold)
Drew Edmondson:

oh yeah.. ya think Islam in France is outta control check http://icasualties.org ... why can't people who are occupied for their own good just accept Jesus? (But as you know Bush/Cheney/Rummy/have warned us it will not be easy and take years to come)Remember a"hard slog" is not a cluless quigmire....

The illegal immigrant (i.e.... (Below threshold)

The illegal immigrant (i.e., Latin immigration) comments are a bit too generalized, don't you think?

Equating LA race politics with the status of the entire Latin population in this country is way over the top. I doubt many, if any, of you even know a Latin person.

It's easy to demagogue this since a large percentage are here illegally. But, their desire to come here from great distances, and flee poverty and, in many cases, political persecution and instability in their own countries is the same stuff that drove many of our forebears here. They love our culture, and we share many of the same Judeo-Christian values and traditions.

Also, you can't equate the peaceful and hard-working and entrepeneurial Latinos prevalent here and in most places in the U.S. with the hate-mongers of the Muslim communities.

Please regard important distinctions before venting on the "Latino Problem"!

BTW, I don't advocate complete amnesty for illegals, but I think Bush has a point with his efforts to manage this problem. And, I am a full-throated Republican who loves his country and his military, so don't suspect my bona fides are missing.

The thing to remember is th... (Below threshold)

The thing to remember is that this IS the French culture. The only thing they are missing is the guillotines. This uprising can be thought of as the best example that these people are French.

It was my understanding tha... (Below threshold)

It was my understanding that these riots were not sparked or started with a religous agenda. It was started because of perceived treatment of two youths by police. It was not until later that any organized religous group advocated the riots.
Of course, I could be wrong here. It just seems disingenious and counter intuitive to blame religion.

If the coordinated long-ran... (Below threshold)

If the coordinated long-range Islamic strategy is to have France partitioned, as was India, everything so far makes sense according to this analysis:


Not as unthinkable as it seems. India thought it was unthinkable ... until it happened.

The french authorities coul... (Below threshold)

The french authorities could have a chilling effect on the rioters by using a simple method. Add liguified swine waste to the stream from water cannons mounted on tanks or fire equipment. Not only would the stench force the rioters away, but muuslims would do almost anything to avoid being doused with water containing swine waste. I don't know why though, as swine rate higher on the ladder of evoultion that muuslims.

People who constantly point... (Below threshold)

People who constantly point to the social inequities in France to excuse this attack on French law and democracy, are either on drugs or have been so brain washed by liberal cant they can no longer think straight.

There are poor and downtrodden neighborhoods throughout Europe and N. America made up of citizens who are part of the core ethnic /Christian majority. In the States such communities are variously referred to as "trailer trash", "white trash" etc. In England there are entire working class communities of the less advantaged, where unemployment is high and social stigmatization rife. But if these citizens so much as raise a whimper and try to assert their communal rights by massing, waving flags of St George or otherwise agitating for rights - they aren't described as "poor disenfranchised underdogs" ... "persecuted minorities" ...”the English who have been left behind” ... no they are vilified as thugs and Nazis.

On a different tack, consider the plight of Coptic Christians in Egypt and Christian Palestinians who endure threat, intimidation and murder at the hands of the Muslim majority. These people cannot even hope to get any kind of fair shake from the Palestinian authorities. Where is the outrage about this? Why aren’t these people described as “persecuted minorities” and why aren’t their social inequities investigated by the BBC ? There is a tomb-like silence on the crimes committed against these peoples, and yet French Muslims go on a rampage across France and immediately all the Liberal appeasers are on the fog horn screaming compassion for the downtrodden. They make me want to puke!!!

The incidence of property crime, gang rape, drug dealing etc that is the stock-in-trade of many of these Muslim gangs in France is never addressed. They are immediately characterized as "victims" without anyone pausing to investigate what percentage of these people have even made an honest effort to change their lot in a lawful fashion. Many of these youths live in a sub-culture and LIKE IT - it beats the hell out of being some oppressed youth without a cell phone or recreational drugs hanging out in the sand blown streets of some Algerian hamlet. Most of them of them are having the time of their lives!!!! They have never had it so good!! They behave like delinquents - take no responsibility for themselves or their actions because they know that the liberal bleeding hearts in the media can be relied upon to fete them as "victims" - "legions of the dispossessed" - and similar cant.

When the hell did we get to the point of AWARDING thugs for attacking the society in which they live. It's amazing how far you can get these days by laying aside decency and reaching for a brick or a Molotov cocktail. Suddenly you go from being a part-time rapist and drug dealer to being propelled into public celebrity and a candidate for political office.

The fact is, bringing millions of Muslims into Europe was an insane idea. A lot of incoming Muslims have no desire whatever to blend into the multi-cultural mosaic and become assimilated. Many of them want nothing more or less than the establishment of a society that caters to their heritage requirements, not vice-versa.

Liberals in Europe are a disgrace. They have created this golden cow - their precious secular heterodoxy - and are prepared to trash and undermine age old traditions and even the intrinsic identity derived from the historical narrative, in order to accommodate their loony plan to create some type of ill-defined "progressive society".

When you are dealing with a community that has deeply entrenched values, powerful religious and social taboos and an unerring sense of Islamic identity that doesn't bend - especially to the needs of a secular heterodoxy - you are playing the fool if you think you are going to be able to make this type of "progressive" experiment work. It is failing as we speak and these riots will get worse over the incoming years and will morph into a guerilla war in Europe. That's what these fool liberals have brought upon our collective heads with their idiot logic.

The time has long passed for Europeans to shake off the rubbish that these neo-hippies and intellectuals have been trying to dress up as a legitimate social/political agenda. Time to get back to some semblance of reality!

___________________________... (Below threshold)

___________________________________________It was my understanding that these riots were not sparked or started with a religous agenda. It was started because of perceived treatment of two youths by police. It was not until later that any organized religous group advocated the riots.
Of course, I could be wrong here. It just seems disingenious and counter intuitive to blame religion.

Posted by: RightWingLiberal at November 7, 2005 05:46 PM

Dear Right Wing Liberal,

As is the case with most liberals, right wing or other, you seem to need a 2 by 4 upside the head in order to start up the realization network.
Please adjust your name to clueless in the future unlees you think I am being too mean spirited, (a favorite liberal phrase).


I live in Fort Worth, Texas... (Below threshold)

I live in Fort Worth, Texas and my neighborhood joins a predominately (Lower to Lower-middle Class) Hispanic neighborhood. I also work in a construction-oriented business and have a lot of contact with both legal and illegal Mexican immigrants. I have found that most legal immigrants and a surprising number of illegal immigrants are very concerned about our open borders. A large portion of illegal immigrants would welcome a path to US citizenship that was not a bureaucratic nightmare. Most Hispanics are good hardworking people that actually have much stronger family and Christian values than the average Anglo. They like America and take to their hearts what is the best of our culture, while at home hang on to the best of their native culture. By the second or third generation you would be hard pressed to know their families came from Mexico unless you got to know them real well and visited their family at home. The problem is that some of the teenagers get mixed up with gangs and the criminal element. Hispanic gangs are very violent and are of the worst element in society. Our problem as a country is that we do not deport the problem makers when we catch them, and we make it difficult for the honest good people to emigrate legally. We also make it too easy for them to live separately after they get here with: bilingual education and Spanish translation on almost all public documents. To assimilate, they must learn English. To enable the children to grow to adulthood in the US without a grasp of English is to condemn them to poverty and second-class status. This lack of upward mobility is a root cause of strife. In summary, we do not have the underlying problem that France faces, but if we do not tighten our borders, deport undesirables, and foster assimilation we could face similar issues in 20 years.

The one thing ab... (Below threshold)

The one thing about this Country is the fact you
can poke us in the eye,kick us in the ass a little
"BUT" there come's a time when your going to
have your ASS handed to you,and if that time
ever come's I feel very sorry for the clown's on
who's ass the hammer is going to fall...

"All they need is a whiff o... (Below threshold)
John S:

"All they need is a whiff of The Grape" - riot control by Napoleon Bonaparte.

The freedom of speech and e... (Below threshold)

The freedom of speech and expression that is the primal mantra of this society is nothing short of a religion. And along with that freedom is the simple fact that no one NEEDS to become conversent in english when in fact americans need to be more fluent in other languages, Most europeans have the image of being able to speak 2 or more languages standard. Not here. when someone doesn't want to learn english, then it is important for americans to learn what they are talking about by learning their secret talk. That way, we can pretend to be innocent of their plans and secretly plan against them in there attacking attitudes apon this great land of ours stolen from the indians and hurt by the poor people leaving their country searching for something better(hmm sounds almost the original motive to come to this land almost 300 years old now) and I am sure that the people here had no problem with the Immegration at the time or the wars, pox, diseases, and general abuse

France now has it's very ow... (Below threshold)

France now has it's very own insurgency. How nice.

"No Mr. Garrison, we can NO... (Below threshold)

"No Mr. Garrison, we can NOT get rid of all the Mexicans." -South Park Mayor

Cleary teejay has a need to... (Below threshold)

Cleary teejay has a need to become conversane in english ;-)


This thread is a lost cause... (Below threshold)

This thread is a lost cause--what a bunch of maroons! It's not worth the effort to post anything sensible.

-s-: What can I say? You're a racist xenophobe who has already accused *me* of being "Mexican" as if that's a bad thing (yet I have no Latino blood whatsoever--I'm a WASP). You might also do well to learn that most of the cities you mentioned are not in Los Angeles--they are separate, autonomous, incorporated cities. You might also want to look up their ethnicities, and learn the percentage of legal versus illegal. Then you'll realize you make little-to-no sense. Seriously, what cave do you live in?

TeeJay--what the f**k do you think you said? Is it the same as what you were TRYING to say?


It's "Vive." Taking a seco... (Below threshold)
Will Harding:

It's "Vive." Taking a second to check on such things would not open you to charges of Gallic pretension.

People, you're missing the ... (Below threshold)
American Vanguard:

People, you're missing the point. The riots aren't a jihad; the rioters are almost all immigrants from Africa: In other words, the problem isn't the Muslims, IT'S THE NIGGERS. Doing what they do best blowing up cars and innocent grandmas.

Like many right-wing blogs ... (Below threshold)

Like many right-wing blogs about the riots in France, your assessment is rife with ignorance of French society. These second- and third-generation North and Subsaharan Africans didn't voluntarily segregate themselves into the depressed suburbs, nor have they sought "to build their own culture and society and rules,and now are looking to establish that as a legally-recognized fact." Just the opposite! These riots are about exclusion from mainstream French society: rampant discrimination vis-a-vis jobs, housing, anything that would allow integration. And, if you actually knew any French people, they would probably tell you that racism and systematic exclusion are so ingrained in French society that, like the Revolutionaries of 1789, the rioters see violent insurrection as the only means of expression available. While I don't support their actions, I understand the deep well of frustration from which they come.

Your attempt to link the French situation with that in the U.S. is equally flawed. The two countries' approaches to the integration of immigrants are vastly different. France has never claimed to be a melting pot, while the U.S. prides itself, rightfully so, on its openness to new arrivals willing to make their way in a land of opportunity. In fact, there is no festering group of second-generation American citizens on the verge of civil anarchy; you just sought an excuse to bash anyone with an accent.

Face it: you're hopelessly out of your depth on this subject, in which case the best course of action is to keep your mouth shut. Adieu.

I have been attacked by mus... (Below threshold)
Erik Theys:

I have been attacked by muslims so many times that its logical i vote right winged now

if left says i am a racist now I DONT CARE! because i care about my life and that of my family more then that of a criminal who has been given everything and still wants more, all those idiots have big cars and expensive clothes, so dont believe the lies of the lefties that they are poor, they refuse to go to school and then cry that they cant get work, well stupid sandpeople, you cant get a job without knowlegde and a paper, they riot because they hate us being white and European, they hate us because we don't want to worship there paedophile god in our own land! they hate us because they want us to kneel for them and give them even more money!

these people are nu humans, they are parasites, the lefties and the muslims, they are the real nazi's and fascists and racists, because normal people no matter how poor they are do not torch cars, houses and schools, and they do not set fire to handicapped woman and kill a man for protecting his own house

people who ''understand'' them like this shit above my post are the real fascists, they ''understand'' why they mass rape girls, they ''understand'' why they torch and kill humans just for protecting his house and family and they ''understand'' for attacking people in there own land for not being a stupid muslim

these people, also called lefties are the real fascists, they support the killing of normal and good people, they support the rape of white girls by 20 muslim scum who need to be shot true there incest heads, they support the burning of your car, your house and your land, and they support the destruction of your life and your identity and in the total destruction of your land and family.

kick them all out, i dont care what lefties will say, i do not listen to them, my life is important and not that of a idiot who burns cars and handicapted people, if lefties say that they are more important than the lefties are the real fascists.

Greetings from The Netherlands

Troubles are starting again... (Below threshold)

Troubles are starting again in France, a girl was burnt last week on a bus in France! Time to send muslims back to Algeria.






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