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Sex as a weapon

Warning: the following story is purely personal, and borders on the emotionally icky. It's a story of a "nice guy" being not so nice, after considerable provocation. And while the precise words might not be 100% accurate, I swear the particulars are.

Last week, an ex-girlfriend of mine got in touch with me. We've occasionally exchanged pleasantries, but I don't think we had actually seen each other in person in about 2 years. She wanted to see me for dinner.

This struck me as odd. She's been living with a guy (a stage she and I never quite reached) for some time now, and she indicated they were still together. But it seems she had a bit of a personal problem, and wanted to talk it over with me -- "someone who knows her very well."

I thought about it for a few days, then decided what the hell. If nothing else, I'd get a free meal out of it. And being the ironic and slightly vindictive type, I suggested Hooters.

We met, then went there in my car. We talked about a whole lot of nothing for a while, then she let a little out. Yeah, she was having some issues with loneliness and fear of abandonment, but the main reason she'd asked me out -- and tonight -- was that her boyfriend was out drinking with his buddies, and she was pointedly NOT invited. She didn't want to spend the evening at home by herself.

That made sense to me. As she said, I know her pretty well. By going out with me, she was scoring some subtle points back against him. Even if he never found out, it was still satisfying to her. And me -- being the "nice guy" -- was utterly and perfectly safe. Our past history of being involved for several years was irrelevant; I was too respectful of her current status to push the issue -- presuming I even wanted to venture down that road again.

I was feeling a bit less than nice, though. She described the root cause of our breakup as "I was tired of being mean to you, and you were tired of my being mean." I pointed out that if that were true, it actually would have been a good step for us; instead, we just kind of faded out.

I pressed her on the root causes of her unhappiness, the reason she wanted to see me. She said "it's the kind of thing you really don't want to hear, and I've decided I don't want to push you."

We batted around a few more things, then left.

At that point, I realized that I was tired of being the nice guy. I was tired of being walked all over. I was tired of being her fail-safe, her backstop, her "emotional tampon" (I even had that full, unexpurgated quote printed out and on me, because I had a hunch where this would go; when I was proven right, I gave it to her. She smiled, but with a slight wince or recognition.) At that point, getting up from the table, I made my choice.

Then just as we reached my car, I grabbed her and pulled her to me. And then I kissed her.

I kissed her like I hadn't kissed anyone in a while. Like I used to kiss her, back when we were together. And, for a brief moment, she responded as she used to. Then we both pulled away.

She was confused. I explained. "You wanted to score your points on your new boyfriend. You wanted to act out a bit, flirt with misbehaving, do something you know he'd hate, but in an utterly safe way. In a way that would not pose a risk to your nice, stable relationship -- unless HE decided to overreact and blow all out of proportion. You wanted to risk a major blowup, but in a way that left you seeming the innocent, the wronged party, the one who did nothing wrong.

"Well, I just took that away from you. I just ruined your whole grand plan. I just wrecked your attempt to use me once again."

I drove her back to her car, then drove myself home. Yeah, I was alone, but that was nothing new. I'd gotten a free meal, and I took her attempt to use me one more time into my chance to give her a taste of her own medicine.

There's a part of me that feels guilty for being so petty and spiteful. But I think that if I don't indulge that side of me at least once every few years, it'll fester.

And -- if she's being honest -- she'll admit that she had it more than coming.


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Comments (48)

Jay,Leave this wom... (Below threshold)


Leave this woman alone. She is twisted. Even playing a game with such a person is begging for trouble.

Jay, what little I know of ... (Below threshold)

Jay, what little I know of you I like, and I don't want to wound your pride unnecessarily, but in this case I'd have to say that you didn't cover yourself with glory.

We're a censorious bunch, we humans. We're always trying to improve one another, even when we concede intellectually that the odds are way the hell against us. In the usual case it generates nothing but resentment. When intimates or former intimates are involved, it sometimes evokes real fury.

What's the point? Why not try being generous instead? If generosity is too much to ask, how about verbal kindness? You know, the sort of thing that would follow an admission to oneself that:

1. The affair is over.
2. I'm out here becaise I have nothing better to do.
3. The lady asked for my company out of residual affection and an unmet need, is paying for my dinner, and owes me 100% of nothing.
4. No one ever held a gun to my head. When we were together, we were together because that's where we wanted to be; when we separated, it was because that's where we wanted to be as well.
5. No one's holding a gun to my head now, either. What I choose to do is entirely uncoerced. It will have more to do with my own desires and fears than with any "higher motives" I might briefly entertain.

You'd probably feel a bit better about yourself this morning.

Your instinct was perfect! ... (Below threshold)

Your instinct was perfect! You 'ruined' her scenario, she can't play the 'but it was perfectly innocent' game should bf find out, at least not without the twinge of guilt.
However, you also became orders of magnitude more interesting to her. Now, you are a 'bad boy'.

Webster is right, you can never "see" her again.

You got what you were after... (Below threshold)

You got what you were after. Your vengence. Now go in for the kill. Call her and tell her your herpes sore surfaced again this morning.

Contrary to the old saying,... (Below threshold)

Contrary to the old saying, revenge is not a dish best served cold. It is a dish best not served at all. In the end it only cheapens you.

BS, (most of) you guys.... (Below threshold)

BS, (most of) you guys.

I think what you did was spot on Jay. Many many women do use 'nice guys'. Being used does get old.

All you did was refuse to be used. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

Hey Lee, you should ask whe... (Below threshold)
Robb H:

Hey Lee, you should ask where your girlfriend was last night...

1 Shot 2 Kill.


The better option would hav... (Below threshold)

The better option would have been just to tell her when she called that you weren't going to be used by her again and that no, you weren't available for dinner.

But hey, you got a free meal.

Jay: Wash your hands of thi... (Below threshold)
Old Coot:

Jay: Wash your hands of this trouble; from what little I know of you, you deserve much better. Remember what Confucius said: "Before you embark on a journey of revenge, first dig two graves".

I used to get that kind of ... (Below threshold)

I used to get that kind of crap, too. I eventually met the perfect woman, and we were married 1 1/2 years ago. Our first child is due in a month. I'm 43, by the way--I waited 14 years after a divorce to get hitched again.

The problem: a dearth of women with character and true intellect--includes wisdom. Graciousness. Kindness.

The solution: hang out with a better class of woman. They're hard to find, but they are out there, and worth waiting for.

I found mine in Nicaragua of all places; the last place I figured, but there she was, at the beach.

Jay didn't "refuse to be us... (Below threshold)

Jay didn't "refuse to be used".

That would have meant declining the invitation to begin with.

Which is what he should have done.

Jay's little revenge ploy will also affect the boyfriend. Did he do anything to Jay?

My opinion of Jay (who I enjoy reading very much) just went down a notch.


You should have screwed her... (Below threshold)

You should have screwed her.

You kissed her. How does t... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

You kissed her. How does that ruin her whole grand plan? Nowadays a kiss is like nothing and being it's not one she initiated, she got all that she wanted from you and more. Her boyfriend my call you up and ask you to entertain her the next time he wants to go out with the guys and needs a "babe" sitter. Next time just be sure you get paid.

Score one for Jay!... (Below threshold)

Score one for Jay!

Great response. I've been in your situation but didn't handle it as well.

Don't be suprised though if she breaks up with boyfreind, then calls you. She might now think you find her irrestible and can't really get along without her.

Hate to say this, but you m... (Below threshold)

Hate to say this, but you may have given her more than she was expecting/hoping for. She wanted to do something privately to piss off or get revenge on her boyfriend.

Instead of a date, she got a date plus a kiss. A kiss she can play innocent and claim she didn't prompt. She'll throw both those things in his face and probably soon if she hasn't already.

How are your fighting skills?

Good for you Jay. Always b... (Below threshold)

Good for you Jay. Always be confident, in control, and a challenge.
Call her and get a return date, you pay, and tell her you are having some problems with your new girl and need her for a backstop.

I enjoy reading your occcas... (Below threshold)

I enjoy reading your occcasional "younger generation" war stories. I'm 56. As an old veteran in the battle of the sexes, I think what you did was necessary to maintain your masculinity. The "safe male" role, especially with an ex-girlfriend, is a guaranteed way to feel neutered.

But this is, or should be, the last contact you have with the lady. No way you can or should revert to being "just friends" again, or pretending to be. Just move on.

Like Mitchell, I found happiness with a foreigner after a too-long marriage to a U.S. citizen ruined by the 1970s feminist movement. My second marriage to a Russian immigrant is the best thing that ever happened to me. If I can sum it up in a sentence, there's no competitive bullshit because she's comfortable being a woman. Everything else -- love, deep mutual respect, compatability and concern -- just seems to fall into place natuirally from that simple fact.

Good luck finding the right one.

Jay Tea:You done w... (Below threshold)

Jay Tea:

You done wrong. Expressing your feelings about not wanting to be "nice guy" or be used by her is one thing. Kissing her the way you did, especially given your apparent lack of interest in her, strikes me as a petty act of revenge.

Far more classy would have been to explain to her (nicely) your feelings, thank her for the night out, and politely explain to her that you're not going to do this again.


Be a man. Call up her boyfr... (Below threshold)

Be a man. Call up her boyfriend and ask "How does my dick taste?" It'll stir up more shit than a sewage treatment plant on new years day.

This being Sunday and all, ... (Below threshold)

This being Sunday and all, its amazing how many guys there are out there without guilt who are qualified to cast the first stone. I guess they are right about the "moral majority" after all.

My only advice to JT is that now that you've exchanged bodily fluids with the skank, you need to have blood tests now, and then in about 6, and twelve weeks and 25 weeks for the usual offenders: syphilis, hepatitis B and C, and HIV.

Remember the old adage: "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Guys never get the last word, and any attempt at having a pissing contest is guaranteed to end up with undesirable Frishculation of the situation.

BTW, Jay, I love the sc... (Below threshold)

BTW, Jay, I love the scenario, but it would have been both juicier and safer ('cause you'd hopefully have a friendly witness) if you had showed up with a bodacious babe on your arm for the "date," explaining your girlfriend is rather possessive and doesn't let you out without an escort. [And if you didn't have any willing fillies in your stable, hiring an escort for this purpose might have been fun too]. Or arranged for your girlfriend to "find" you at Hooters in mid-meal.
Personally, I would have also held back on the spit swapping - who knows how much of her story is true, and I hate blood tests.

Guys, lighten up on Jay. H... (Below threshold)

Guys, lighten up on Jay. He is a human, he makes mistakes sometimes. He is a man, guaranteed to make mistakes. He is a nice guy who was being used for that purpose, he is going to make mistakes.

I for one....think you did nothing wrong. Just don't see her again.

"a dearth of women with cha... (Below threshold)

"a dearth of women with character and true intellect"

This is why meeting Deb through our blogs worked so well.

[email protected] Jay Tea</p... (Below threshold)


@ Jay Tea

What if you completely misunderstood her reasons? What if she were lonely and just wanted to talk to someone who knew her? A chance to talk to someone she doesn't have to put up a facade for?

You're making a rather large assumption when you state that she was trying to score points. Sure you know her better than I do, that's a given. But not every person has an underhanded motive, and not motive a person has is underhanded.

You may end feeling not triumph, but regret.

Jay,Aren't you the... (Below threshold)
Malibu Stacy:


Aren't you the guy who's always quoting Heinlein's TANSTAAFL?

Hint: it applies to dinners, too.

Now for all those who have ... (Below threshold)

Now for all those who have their own opinions of what JT should or shouldn't have done, None of us were there, Hindsight is easy to give, and We will always regret what we did or didn't do

That being said, His Ex did use him often, try to dominate and often belittle him. I heard it often from her. I learned of his act, and with my experience of them both, I can say, Yes, savor this JT, because for no other reason then, Justice and revenge are very much the same, Justice was served, Revenge was tasted, The results are the same. It only matters which we choose to remember

Well played, Sir, well play... (Below threshold)

Well played, Sir, well played!

You people whinging about w... (Below threshold)

You people whinging about what Jay did are nothing but a buncha wussies.

First of all, if anything he's doing the boyfriend a *favor*. This woman is a freakish game-playing ho.

Second, it's hilarious. Lighten up.

"iknowthemboth" beat me to ... (Below threshold)

"iknowthemboth" beat me to the punch. I was going to share that as Jay's friend for about a decade now, I was SO happy when that relationship ended. He truly is a NICE GUY who treats women with respect, and she crapped all over him for way too long.

I'm not one for revenge - in fact, I usually take the "Give them enough rope to hang themselves" attitude (and they ALWAYS manage to hang themselves, don't they?)

HOWEVER - this was no innocent little "Gee whiz, Jay - it would be really nice to catch up with you". This girl is bad news, and Jay deserves better. If it made him feel better to do what he did - I'm glad he did it. Revenge never tasted so sweet as it must have with a hint of Hooter's Wing Sauce!!!

Very recently, an old boyfriend caught up with me on classmates.com. This guy treated me like dirt, cheated, lied, etc. until I finally woke up and smelled the java. When he contacted me, it was all this flirty "happy memories" bs, and I just snapped - told him something like this: "I don't know where you got all of the happy memories you seem to have. My memories of our relationship are far from happy. You treated me badly, lied to me, and cheated on me with my best friend, ruining a wonderful friendship in the process. Breaking up with you was the smartest thing I ever did. I only hope that you have learned how to treat women. Do NOT contact me ever again."

Being that mean was hard for me, but I sure felt better afterwards. Sometimes, you just have to tell people where to go.

Good! If I'd been a fly on... (Below threshold)

Good! If I'd been a fly on the wall I'd have CHEERED for you!

When she calls again (and she will, trust me), the first thing you need to say is "Donna WHO?" or whatever her name is. Then hang up.

Wow.I'm impressed ... (Below threshold)
Waffle King:


I'm impressed with your insight into her motivations.

You decisively took a stand against being an enabler; if this gives her pause to reflect then maybe you did her a favor. Hope you didn't open a large, stinky can of worms, though.

Ick! What a bunch of sappy,... (Below threshold)

Ick! What a bunch of sappy, "Understand their motives give 'em a hug" buncha BS.

Damn all that, J. You grabbed the initiative. Bravo. Just remember to hold the initiative.

I think we ALL know this ty... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

I think we ALL know this type of gal.

Kudos to Jay (now NEVER interact with her again!)

And this made me laugh out loud:

Hey Lee, you should ask where your girlfriend was last night...

1 Shot 2 Kill.


Posted by: Robb H at July 16, 2006 08:19 AM


Jay - I can totally relate ... (Below threshold)

Jay - I can totally relate to you here, as I am pretty much in the same situation with my ex (although we did live together, and were actually engaged for a while). I found out not long ago that she was dating two guys who did not know about each other. Naturally, I told her I was not going to be involved in any way (even just as "a friend") until that stopped. She then called me back just after my FD Brother died, and asked me if I wanted to have a beer and talk. She told me she was "sort of single" as one of those guys moved away, and the other was back in school and working, so they just casually dated. But, she also told me he was somewhat of the jealous type but never had a problem going out with his friends. I didn't go where you did, but I told her that I was not going to "be there" for her to call when she wanted to go out with someone he wouldn't like, or anything else really. I can tell you that early on in our relationship, we had a fight and broke up. Neither of us dated during "the break" (so no Ross/Rachel moment), but during it, we were talking after a work function where everyone else had "somewhere to be" and left early. I walked her to her car, pulled her to me and kissed her. Neither of us pulled away, but I can tell you, that was a mistake, as that is what made me go out with her again, and that is what nearly drove me to drink myself into the ground. Just get away, and tell her that you cannot be around her, trust me, it IS for the best. God bless brother, and I am praying for you.

Best thing that happenned t... (Below threshold)

Best thing that happenned to me was the woman I loved divorced me. Now if she would only stop phoning me and she's be married 3 times since!

The best revenge is to be happy...

Better to have given her a ... (Below threshold)

Better to have given her a nice little pat on the ass and explained you were late for her boyfriend's party.

Bravo on deciding not to be... (Below threshold)
BC Monkey:

Bravo on deciding not to be the emotional tampon. Hard lesson to learn, I know. You came out of the meeting about as well as you could have. Sometimes preventing a loss is a win.

There should be no next time however.

When it comes to the "emotional counsel" role, you should only ever give that to a woman you are sleeping with or a woman you have no desire to ever sleep with. Even the former can be iffy.

Mixed feelings on this. Bu... (Below threshold)

Mixed feelings on this. But I agree with Webster, Redhand and others that this should just be the end.

You diagnosed the illness correctly, doctor, but I don't know if the treatment was appropriate. Props, however, for insight and willingness to attempt treatment.

I have brought up multiple sons to adulthood. There is a cost to pay for being a nice-guy. But there is a cost for everything in life, and you really don't want to pay the price of the other choices.

The best part now, everyone... (Below threshold)

The best part now, everyone knows about it through this post. Heh...

John Wayne would have done ... (Below threshold)

John Wayne would have done the same thing. and then walked her across town in her underwear and then spanked her with a fireplace shovel he picked up at the blacksmith's shop.

And the whole town would have laughed.

No, screwing her would have... (Below threshold)

No, screwing her would have been a bad idea.

Even worse, would have been to screw her and shout out another woman's name.

Even worse than that, would be to try to smooth it over by telling her that he'd never shouted the wrong name before, not even hers.

Let me get this straight:</... (Below threshold)

Let me get this straight:

1) Meet at neutral place.
2) Drive together in your car. To Hooters. In "The Shaggin' Wagon."
3) She does the whole weepy pour her heart out thing, talk about Auld Lang Syne, blah-blah-blah.
4) You kiss her.
5) You drive her back to her car, again, in "The Shaggin' Wagon."
6) You say good night.

Executive Summary: Du-u-u-u-de.

"The Shaggin' Wagon" is now officially renamed "The Celibate Cruiser." And if that car had any kind of male soul, you would get airbagged as soon as you turn the key tomorrow.

Not sure I would have agree... (Below threshold)

Not sure I would have agreed to meet her in the first place. Particularly if she was hot.

Want to wound her pride, saying "nah" would have been just as effective.

So what's her number?... (Below threshold)

So what's her number?

I like how when you post a ... (Below threshold)

I like how when you post a comment the address ends with "Sayit." Remember Kinison screaming that?

"Kissing her the way you di... (Below threshold)

"Kissing her the way you did, especially given your apparent lack of interest in her, strikes me as a petty act of revenge."

I kinda thought that was the whole point.

Personally, I don't think you should have agreed to see her, absent any indications she's a different person than the one you broke up with. And, having agreed to see her anyway, you should have taken separate cars.

Dude, haven't you ever seen... (Below threshold)
Cautiously Pessimistic:

Dude, haven't you ever seen Wargames? The only winning move is not to play. Next time don't meet with her.

But "to not play" will not ... (Below threshold)
Starboard Attitude:

But "to not play" will not necessarily be perceived by her as "the winning move." That's way too ambiguous, and chicks like her (from your description) use ambiguity as a primary survival technique.

Sometimes you have to spell it out with all five senses.






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