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Dow: 12,000 !!


I blame Bush.

Update (Kim): Woo Hoo! And in just 15 minutes after the opening bell to boot!

Update II (Kim again): From the WSJ (unfortunately, paid registration required):

Early Wednesday, the Labor Department said the consumer price index decreased 0.5% in September, the biggest drop since November 2005. Excluding food and energy, the CPI advanced 0.2%, the third-straight monthly increase of that size. Economists called for a 0.3% decline in the CPI and a 0.2% increase in the core index.

Meanwhile, the Commerce Department said September housing starts increased by 5.9% to a seasonally adjusted 1.772 million annual rate. Wall Street expected a decline of 1.2% to a 1.645 million annual rate last month.

Intel reported a 35% drop in third-quarter profit, but showed signs of mending problems that have been ailing the world's largest chip maker. Intel shares were up 2.6% in early trade.

Yahoo also was up, rising more than 4% overseas after the company met expectations with a 20% sales rise. Profit at the Internet bellwether declined 37%.

IBM's third-quarter net income rose 46% from a tax-charge-weakened level a year earlier, as sales rose 5.1%, reflecting growth in all major business lines. IBM shares climbed 4.9%.


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Comments (38)

Other indices such as S&P, ... (Below threshold)

Other indices such as S&P, NASDAQ both indicate growth as well. Other indicators show a growing economy, while THIS shows that the PEOPLE (investors) are optomistic about the future of our economy.

Too bad those in the fabric... (Below threshold)
P. Bunyan:

Too bad those in the fabricated reality based commununity think the economy is in horrible shape. It's too bad because those same people control most of the information that the average American receives and they would never report the inconvenient truth of how well tha economy is actually doing.

Cue Litany #42: Bu... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

Cue Litany #42:

But, the jobs are McJobs (now known as Wal-jobs)!

Wages haven't risen when corrected for inflation since 1966!

Manufacturing jobs have declined!

Americans don't take enough vacations, they're overworked!

What about the housing bubble? (A coupla years ago, it was where were people going to live, as housing prices rose.)

What about personal debt!

What about the deficit! Or the national debt!

Eventually (and this will be most amusing): What about the Social Security and Medicare system? How are we going to pay for those entitlement programs?!

Let's face it, it's really just 1929 all over again. Bush is presiding over the worst economy since the Great Depression, and only Republicans refuse to see it!

Lurking Observer : There is... (Below threshold)

Lurking Observer : There is now way to convince a fool that he is a fool. Go ask your momma, maybe you'll believe her when she tells you that you are a fool.

Facts are facts and even a left wing fool can't change them. Lie to the people like the antique MSM and cut your own throat. All of this will come back to bite you in the a** if the democ'rat party takes over. Anyone that doesn't look at history is doomed to repeat it. Elect them if you want, you pay the higher taxes and i'll draw the SS and pension.
By the way, who told the country that the SS system in already bankrupt and will not be able to pay benefits soon. Wasn't that President Bush? All of the lefties went crazy so he put it off trying to fix the problem until next year. If it's not fixed i'm going to get a good laugh at you fools.

I don't know of one person that wants a job that doesn't have one and they are not all working at McDonalds and WalMart. Someone has to earn the money somewhere else to spend at McDonalds and WalMart. I do know people that are trying to hire skilled workers (building trade) at 25-30 dollars per hour and guess what. The average lazy leftie educated fool last a couple of weeks at most, so they end up costing the employer for the training. Everyone wants to start out as president of the bank, no need to work their way up.

There is something of a hou... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

There is something of a housing bubble. It's mainly a surplus of unsold inventory. A backlog of a couple of years, where a healthy inventory is maybe five or six months' worth of inventory. Once that's all sold off (perhaps in a year) then housing will pick up again. But for now, new housing will be down. But it may be that only the real estate sector will be affected, and not the economy as a whole.

Let's face it, it's real... (Below threshold)

Let's face it, it's really just 1929 all over again. Bush is presiding over the worst economy since the Great Depression, and only Republicans refuse to see it!

Until, of course, there's a Democrat in sight to take credit for the economic news, then none of this will matter - just as none of it mattered during the Bill Clinton years, when all of it was equally true.

The economy is always a disaster when there's a Republican in office, and our glasses always automagically revert to Half Full when a Democrat takes over.

Remember 1992? Utter, complete, unmitigated economic horror until a random Tuesday in November - and then the strains of "Happy Days Are Here Again" were the only tune the MSM appeared to know.

For fuck's sake, but this is getting pretty transparent.


ScrapIron-I'm fami... (Below threshold)


I'm familiar with Lurking Observer at other blogs. He is being sarcastic, and trying to pre-emptively give you all the Liberal/MSM excuses why things are really -

Bad! Bad!

CBS has Dan Rather looking for a shanty town called Hooverville to report from......somebody has to save Katie Couric!

And to respond point by poi... (Below threshold)

And to respond point by point from personal experience:

But, the jobs are McJobs (now known as Wal-jobs)!

In the past year I started a new job and my salary is in the 6 digits.

Wages haven't risen when corrected for inflation since 1966!

Corrected for inflation, my situation has improved steadily over the last 35 years. Especially since taxes have been reformed in that period. When Carter left office, the top of the the tax table was 70%. My take home income would be half that today if Republicans hadn't reformed the tax system.

Manufacturing jobs have declined!

My position is in manufacturing and it is a new poistion.

Americans don't take enough vacations, they're overworked!

I have more vacation time allowed to me today than I have ever had. And I take it. All three weeks plus all 10 federal holidays.

What about the housing bubble? (A coupla years ago, it was where were people going to live, as housing prices rose.)

I purchased a home in 2003 for $255,000. The home accross the street sold the month before for virtually the same price. On Monday that home accrosss the street sold for $415,000.

What about personal debt!

I have no debt except for my home. I do not owe anything for my cars, my children's education - nothing. And any credit card debt I accrue during the month I pay off as soon as I get the bill.

What about the deficit! Or the national debt!

This country has had a deficit/national debt so long as I have been alive. I am still here and so is the country.

So, LU, I have refuted everything you had to say and I can back it up by referencing my own checkbook whereas you haven't supported a single point you tried to make.

As Lee would say - Pathetic! (See Jay Tea - Lee is quoteable once in a while!)

Scrappy ~ Easy there. LO ... (Below threshold)

Scrappy ~ Easy there. LO was being facetious. He was posting the moonbat arguments to save them time so they can go about uncovering more conspiracies.

Big Mo ~ Even in good economic times, there tends to be a pendulum in sales between new homes and existing homes. If sales of both are rising steadily, it's a "housing boom," or at least a "boomlet," but unless both decline for consecutive months there is little to be drawn from the flucuation for the overall economy.

The CPI/PPI news is good because it argues against the threat of rising inflation, which means interest rates don't need to increase further - or may even be able to come down a bit. That's good news for housing, business, and the economy at large.

You know what is sad? Lee h... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

You know what is sad? Lee has made the arguments I laid out in the thread below---except I am being sarcastic, and he is not.

Scrapiron, SShiel, sanssoucy, sorry for not including an "end sarcasm" closer with the above thread.

Jim Addison - yes, but all... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

Jim Addison - yes, but all I'm saying is that things are down in residential housing in the midwest right now because of an excess of inventory. Once that's gone, things will pick up again. People just aren't buying anymore like they were 2-3 years ago, regardless of CPI and etc. There's a cautiously pessimistict mood in the real estate market as it relates to residential housing in the midwest (but not industrial and commercial; those are doing much better) and it's being driven by this heavy unsold inventory.

Big Mo:I think wha... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

Big Mo:

I think what you're describing is occurring in a number of locales, especially given the building boom of the last couple of years.

Places like Washington DC and Las Vegas are almost certainly going through a degree of contraction.

OTOH, the low CPI figures means that folks have a chance to convert their ARM mortgages and interest-only loans to something a bit more rational---without being clobbered by rapidly rising interest rates in the process.

It also suggests that there won't be a major financial contraction, in which falling home prices and job losses feed off each other into an economic death-spiral and massive recession (replete with major numbers of foreclosures).

Average annual stock market... (Below threshold)

Average annual stock market increase under Clinton;


Under Bush


Under Democrats


Under Republicans


Now, see, muirgeo, OTOH, is... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

Now, see, muirgeo, OTOH, is not being sarcastic....

Where is the prosperity for... (Below threshold)

Where is the prosperity for ALL Americans?

Still no increase in the minimum wage, despite the proserity that so many Republicans claim they've personally found. Social Security increases this next year will be $33 a month.

Thanks to the Republican-controlled Congress the poor and elderly are worse off, not better. Why is that?

Perhaps its because they can't afford the high-priced lobbyists it takes to get legislation passed by the corrupt, greedy Republicans in Congress.

It's time for a change.

what our friend murigo fail... (Below threshold)
Big Mo:

what our friend murigo fails to relate is that most of the gains under Clinton were ilusory and disappaeared. They even started disappearing before he left office. Remember the tech boom and the huge bust that followed?

It was built on:

1) phony internet start-ups that had no product but suckered people to drop millions into them

2) the upgrades of systems in preparation for Y2K

3) the continuation of the Reagan boom after the hiccup of the mild recession of 1990-1

Bush, on the other hand, had to deal with:

1) the burst of the tech bubble and subsequent recession

2) the end of the Y2K market

3) the 9/11 terrorist attacks which body slammed the economy

4) the corporate scandals, which shook investor confi9dence in wall street

5) subsequent new regulations designed to deal with those scandals

6) a market trying to struggle with all of those shocks and dig its way out of recession.

So, yeah, if you just look at the raw numbers, it looks rosy for St. Clinton and Democrats. But if you look at the real story, it's a much, much different thing, now isn't it?

Still no increase in the... (Below threshold)

Still no increase in the minimum wage, despite the proserity that so many Republicans claim they've personally found

The state of the economy is determined by the current minimum wage! Who knew?


SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch)... (Below threshold)

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) - Shares of Yahoo Inc. fell as much as 3% in heavy trading Wednesday after the company reported third-quarter profit fell by more than a third and said fourth-quarter sales would lag Wall Street expectations

Minimum wage? Social Securi... (Below threshold)

Minimum wage? Social Security?
F*CK the mimimum wage, Lee! You get a minimum wage when you start out as a slob without anyu skills. You get skills, you get to be a good worker and you get a raise. You don't raise a family on the minimum wage, and you sure as hell don't spend the rest of yout life on minimum wage.

Unless you're a Democrat, in which case you don't have any skills, and there are people like Lee around to tell you how the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeevilll Rethuglicans are stealing your rightful piece of the pie.

"For the common good," right, Lee? Isn't that the wonderful new Democrat slogan? But hey, let's play the game - what's the minimum wage now? What should it be? And why shouldn't it be $20 an hour? Hell, how about $50 an hour? If the minimum wage is so freakin' important to the health and prosperity of the nation, why aren't we starting McDonald's burger flippers at $100 an hour? Come up with an answer, asshat.

And SS is a worthless Ponzi scheme kept floating by economically-illiterate lefties (but I repeat myself) and lazy bastiches who think the government is their mommy and should take care of every need.

Social Security increase... (Below threshold)

Social Security increases this next year will be $33 a month.

Thanks to the Republican-controlled Congress the poor and elderly are worse off, not better. Why is that?


Wasn't the Republicans that wanted to privatize S.S. (i.e. the elderly)? Shouldn't we be in control of OUR OWN money?

In your Green-Sky world, I'm sure the answer is a resounding, Communist "No".

Big Mo -- Lee is coming by ... (Below threshold)

Big Mo -- Lee is coming by in a few minutes to tell you that the corporate scandals were all Bush's fault.

Lee you dope. Those "high-priced lobbyists" got just as fat and happy when the Dems were in control. Influence peddling is not a partisan exercise. The entire system is sick, not just half of it.

Yes, Lee thinks the road is... (Below threshold)

Yes, Lee thinks the road is paved with riches if we just had that minimum wage increased. Obviously, he hasn't studied economics or business, or this economy.

The markets determine growth, not the government. I know this is a head-scratcher for Flea Bag and the rest of our Resident Loony Left.

If capital, and incomes, are taxed at a low rate, the markets tend to produce more, and employees over time receive more. The markets also tend to look for consistency in tax policy which we don't have now since many of the Bush Miracle Tax Breaks(tm) expire in a few years.

The market likes earnings that have come out so far, and thrives in a lower tax environment. How might that change under your Speaker Pelosi and Leader Reid?

Hold fast to your wallets, my friends.

Our system is not perfect, but it has produced more wealth than any system ever devised by Man. It also places the most freedom in our hands, to do with as we like.

Some will fail, some will not try, many will exceed their expectations.

But, I don't want YOU or ANYONE ELSE restraing my freedom to pursue my profession, business, and life.

When I started paying into ... (Below threshold)

When I started paying into SS, it seems like a hundred years ago, it was understood that SS was to supplement 'your' planned retirement funds, not a sole income. Far be it for me to bitch that they have increased the payout of SS. Between my planned monthly retirement income and SS it pay around 27K annually. Add a few investments and the fact that 'I' built my own home from the ground up and 'owe' not a penny to a soul on it, and you won't find me going hungry.
People are totally whacked out and money hungry. What does it matter if you make $10 an hour and pay $1 for a loaf of bread or make $100 an hour and pay $10 for a loaf of bread. Either way it cost you 10% of an hours earnings. I guess people with big ego's and weak minds (democrats) think they can brag about the big money and impress somoone. BS

Scrapiron makes a point I'd... (Below threshold)

Scrapiron makes a point I'd love those on the left to figure out - it's all about proportions. What does it matter if a minimum wage employee at a grocery store somewhere makes $5.15 an hour versus $12 an hour if he still pays 10% for item X that the store sells? Sure, it makes one feel better to make that kind of money, but in the end inflation will bite you in the ass anyway. The value of the American dollar will drop to a level never seen before, which will hurt us more in the long run.

If you're going to make a whole series of wrong choices in life (drop out of high school, get a job at Wal-Mart or McDonalds for your entire life, start a family when you don't have the money or the support, don't start a 401(k)/IRA/whatever fund, etc.), then you shouldn't come crying to the rest of us when you wind up living on some pissant SS check. That's what personal responsibility is all about. The only thing that should save you from your own stupidity is the charity of an individual's heart, not the government.

Obviously, there are circumstances when stupidity isn't the culprit for somebody's financial woes. However, perhaps if Americans started taking care of their own families instead of dumping parents when they became inconvenient, we wouldn't have this problem. Those who don't have that option can be assisted by private charities. It burns me up that people won't take responsibilty for them and theirs but instead insist that the government take care of them.

Libs--please refer us to a ... (Below threshold)

Libs--please refer us to a better system than what we have now.

muirgeo: Aren't the stock ... (Below threshold)

muirgeo: Aren't the stock market gains in muirgeo's post the same gains that fell through the floor and actually went below the starting point when the 'second' set of books were discovered at Worldcom, Enron and several other large brokerage firms. Millions of people lost their entire life savings and retirement accounts to the Slick/Algore con game. Several people went to jail. The only ones that made a profit were Slick, Algore, Hellary and Hellary's brother who sold the pardons.

Got to deduct all of the real losses from the 'phantom' profits.

True, Scrap, they ain't gai... (Below threshold)

True, Scrap, they ain't gains until they're booked.

I suppose mungo's retort will be that the Halliburton crowd, "stolt it frum ma grandmama's account," or some such.

4) the corporate scandals, ... (Below threshold)

4) the corporate scandals, which shook investor confi9dence in wall street

Posted by: Big Mo

Of all the funny excuses from Big Mo this one is the funniest.

Yep sure glad all those corporate scandals are taken care of. Good to know that the corporations like Halliburton, Bechtel, Catholic Health Care, Pfizer ect are all on the up and up.

Yep sure good to know that corporations have raked in 20% or more profits during the recent "boom" in worker (make that Communist Chinese laboerers) productivity while the average CEO has seen their incomes go up 4- 6 fold and that of the WORKING man completly stagnant.

muirego, When are y... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

When are you moving to Iran, North Korea, or Cuba to be free of these big evil corporations?

THe left cannot simply be intellectually honest.

At the same time, the dem p... (Below threshold)
LoveAmerica Immigrant:

At the same time, the dem party is fully in the pockets of the filthy rick of George Soros. The facts show that the Dem is the party of the rich. I you care about the poor, then you cannot vote for the Dem party anymore.

"Increase Minimum Wage"?</p... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Increase Minimum Wage"?

Heh. I heard a guy call a local talk radio show the other day. He said he had a crisp 100 dollar bill for anyone who had worked full time for the last six months who was still making minimum wage.

His point was that nobody, NOBODY, makes minimum wage unless they WANT to make minimum wage. All you have to do is show up on time and be dependable and you will make more than minimum wage.

By the way, nobody called in to take the guy up on his offer, and this was in northeast Ohio where the economy is not nearly as good as most parts of the country.

Anyone out there got the paystubs to prove that they dependably worked a minimum wage job and didn't make more than minimum wage after only six months? Anyone?

Didn't think so.

Libs--please refer us to a ... (Below threshold)

Libs--please refer us to a better system than what we have now.

Posted by: Mitchell

The system that was put in place starting by FDR starting after the Republican lead Great Depression. From the 50's to the late 70's the American Middle Class was stronger then ever and the American worker got a greater share of the pie.

I would reverse the question and ask you to tell me of a country or a time that was more Libertarian and prospered better then America in the mid 20'th century.

I would argue the best example of a country with the policies you want us to have would be Mexico. Where as all the social democracies have happy healthy people and economies.

I recently talked with one of my clients from Denmark. They take 3 months a year off. They don't have to worry about leaving a job and losing theirhealth insurance. They our j

LEE 11:51 AM"Wh... (Below threshold)

LEE 11:51 AM

"Where is the prosperity for ALL Americans?"

In My pockets where its gonna stay.

It's too early to tell if w... (Below threshold)
John S:

It's too early to tell if we'll see a recession next year. There *isn't* too many WalJobs. Retail has already cut employment by 150,000 this year. Both the housing and automotive industry already are mired in a severe recession. The wild card is what the oil traders do. In the past month they've lost control of the price giving all of us the equivalent of a $200 million tax cut. But next spring I suspect they'll want to test $4 a gallon, since we accepted $3 with little fuss.

Poor Lee and Muriego. It m... (Below threshold)

Poor Lee and Muriego. It must be tough coming up with all these excuses for the good economy. bwhhahahahaha......

What's good for Americans is bad for the liberals.

Mungo has clients, with thi... (Below threshold)

Mungo has clients, with this thinking? Must be government contracts:

"I would reverse the question and ask you to tell me of a country or a time that was more Libertarian and prospered better then America in the mid 20'th century.

I would argue the best example of a country with the policies you want us to have would be Mexico. Where as all the social democracies have happy healthy people and economies."

Why the f*ck aren't you living in Mexico, then, amigo? I asked the question you answered because I knew the answer you'd come up with is bullshit.

Mexico is an impoverished country, still, due to no legal system, and a corrupt political system, although getting better somewhat. Why do you think these little brown people are moving up to your hometown, muchacho?

Western Europe is a torpid basket case of sluggish growth with a heavily dependant welfare class. You want that "opium of the masses" here? Hell no. Their health care sucks. They have to wait months and years to have standard surgeries. I sat with a group of ER docs from Britain, and what they told me one night would make you run as far away from "universal" health care as you can get. The polls consistently show their consumer satisfaction way below our's in health care.

Mid-50's, eh? How was your/our standard of living then? Did you have a tv in every damn room, microwave, stereo, ipod, 3000+ avg sq ft house, highest percentage home ownership, multiple cars, most of this even for the "poor," low inflation, low interest rates, low taxes?

Do you remember the '70's, ass? raging inflation, high gas prices, 20% interest rates, 90% marginal tax rates???

By every objective measure I can think of we are a much wealthier, healthy nation than in the mid-50's. What were the rates of cancer deaths then? How about polio. How about diabetes, heart attack? Your lack of any perspective is breathtaking.

What kind of asshole comes on this blog and thinks to write this kind of stupidity?

"Anyone out there got the p... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Anyone out there got the paystubs to prove that they dependably worked a minimum wage job and didn't make more than minimum wage after only six months? Anyone?"

Just as I thought, nobody has responded.

The 'raise the minimum wage' mantra has no meaning in the real world. It's only useful as a Democrat talking point, dutifully repeated by the usual knee-jerk Lefties.

Closed above 12,000 today.<... (Below threshold)

Closed above 12,000 today.

Lee: Damn, I hate it when that happens.

Hugh: I shoulda bought in the Evil Bush Market!

Mongo: I want the market to fall to 7,000 to spite BushHitler.






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