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Won't get fooled again

(Author's note: this piece was inadvertently published briefly this morning, then pulled and scheduled for 2:00. In the few minutes it was up, though, one person managed to sneak a comment in. That is why the first comment is time-stamped several hours before the actual piece.)

Well, we've had a few days to ruminate over the election, and I think it's time to look at what went right -- and what went wrong -- with the voting.

I'm not interested in the outcome here, but the process. Last Tuesday revealed some serious flaws in our electoral process, and we need to give them a long, hard look at just how we run our elections -- and how to fix them.

First up, I think it's time to get rid of purely electronic voting. Period. I have yet to hear a compelling argument for dispensing with the old-fashioned, almost antiquated paper ballots. In Manchester, I had to fill out my ballot with a sharpie, then feed it into an optical scanner. There is just too much room for human error and human malice in a purely electronic system. Sorry, Diebold. Suck it up.

Secondly, there were several amused reports of incumbent congressmen who were denied the opportunity to vote for themselves due to a lack of identification. There should be more stories like that next time around. It's long overdue for there to be true voter verification, especially when it comes to voter fraud.

Which brings me to point 3, a serious crackdown on voter fraud. It's hardly the sole province of any one organization or side, but I think the worst example has to be ACORN. The liberal activists have shown a horrific tendency to violate the law and commit the most flagrant abuses of the electoral system. I'd not only like to see a RICO investigation into their "voter registration" programs, but at least I'd like to see some non-governmental organization -- perhaps a conservative group -- appoint themselves ACORN's watchdog and double-check and verify their voter registrations. Sure, it'll be expensive, but just think of the Return On Investment in good PR for the group that so selflessly defends our electoral process.

That's just three ideas. Three areas where I think that we have serious problems with our electoral process, and need to fix them.

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one election was tipped by abuses and -- let's be blunt -- crimes such as above. But the election is over. We've seen the effects of re-fighting elections. We need to follow the example of Richard Nixon in 1960, not Al Gore of 2000. (And let's also eschew John Kerry of 2004, who decided in favor of contesting the election before he decided against it.)

Let's learn from the mistakes of the past, but not obsess over them and re-fight battles that are, for all intents and purposes, lost.

We have almost two years to fix our system. Let's get started now.

Comments (41)

"Last Tuesday revealed some... (Below threshold)

"Last Tuesday revealed some serious flaws in our electoral process, and we need to give them a long, hard look at just how we run our elections -- and how to fix them."

Last Tuesday? Where have you been the last two elections? Why are you outraged about this now?

I'm glad you are on board finally, but did it really take a historic beating to realize this? Sheesh.

I totally disagree about th... (Below threshold)

I totally disagree about the electronic voting. We had "old fashioned" punch cards in Florida in 2000 and you had election officials looking at then trying to "interpet" whether a dimple meant a vote for Al Gore or not. Yeah, that was really precise!

The problem is not the method but the human nature behind it. No matter whether it is more modern elctronic voting or old fashioned punch card, fraud will ALWAYS be a threat.

Personally, I think it's embarrasing that a country like ours is still using these old antiquated systems to vote. It's time we move into the 21st century.

Paper ballots are just as s... (Below threshold)

Paper ballots are just as subject to fraud, I'm not sorry to see them go.

BTW... I've voted electronically more than once now and there IS a paper record... it's a tape that prints out alongside the machine under a window, you can review it before you submit your vote (or cancel and vote all over).

My thing is NO MORE CHADS

jp2 hasn't been paying attention either. Criticism over voter fraud HAS taken place from the right side of the aisle, but the left ignores/dismisses those arguments.

And the leftside wants to make even inadvertent mistakes as part of some conspiracy.

What is extremely evident from this election cycle is that losing Republicans have shown a great deal more class. No lawsuits, no promise of years-long "it was stolen" rants.

Yes, the children's table is now in charge of Congress. My only hope is in that the biggest food fights will take place between a Dem leadership squarely in the moonbat orchestra seats and the newbie moderate & conservative Dems in the balcony.

I can't speak to Jay's prio... (Below threshold)

I can't speak to Jay's prior position on electronic voting, but I feel pretty confident that he's long been in favor of strong voter identification policies, and long been against widespread voter fraud by groups like ACORN.

I agree with jp2. Ignoring ... (Below threshold)

I agree with jp2. Ignoring the last two elections shows partisan hack-manship on the part of the Teaman. Makes the rest of his post just fluff wrapped around a poke at the Democrats.

Say it in fewer words next time, Jay. Saves us time decoding your hidden message.

You're right, Lee. Screw ch... (Below threshold)

You're right, Lee. Screw changing the system. Let's just leave all the problems alone as they are, and may the best cheater win.

Remind me to invest in Diebold stock, and start some "voter registration" drives of my own. I'm willing to bet I can get THOUSANDS signed up in my own ward alone.

Oh, and let's also start suing in about a dozen Senate and fifty House races.

While I'm at it, I think I'll whine about "stolen elections" and talk about how Carol Shea-Potter "is not MY representative." In 2008, I'll start early with the "let's not elect her again."

I have almost six years of whining and nattering to draw from, if I need more inspiration.

Seriously: I've had problems with the way things have been done for some time. To try to swing changes before the election would have been impossible. But right after one, you have a better chance of roping those unhappy with the results, along with those who have been calling for it for some time.

Unless, of course, they're only in favor of reforms that don't stop THEIR side from cheating...


Last two elections weren't ... (Below threshold)

Last two elections weren't ignored Lee. Jessie Jackson's paying for votes in FL was investigated and buried by the DNC PR...oops I mean the MSM. Not to mention the attempt by the Dems to throw out military absentee votes or ACORN and their forging of voter registration cards not only in this election but also in 2000 and 2004. How about the Democrat Governor of Washington having a miraculous recount and then shutting down all investigations of it?

Lest we forget the ACORN "crack for votes" program of 2004 as well.

How about the questionable Wisconsin votes in 2004 Pres election where predominatnly Republican districts miracously voted for Kerry?

2000 is a good example of a blatant attempt by the Dems to steal the 2000 election but it backfired on them. The Left screams about Jeb Bush and Katherin Harris being Republicans (and both were not invovled in the recounts) when Gore's own campaign manager in FL was in charge of the recount.

And how about the large amount of dead voting in Penn. over several elections and voting mostly 80% Democrat?

Or the greatest Left scam at voter fraud--the combination of motor-voter laws, combined with allowing illegal aliens to get licenses and opposing voter ID? There is one reason and one reason only to oppose proper identification for voting and that is fraud. Period. Think people don't know that?

If you really, really want investigations into voter fraud I'm all for it because I for one would love to know just how many liberals are elected by fraud.

People have been complaining since 2000, but without the drumbeat from the liberal controlled media an the inability of liberals to listen (or just to outright lie about what they know to be true) it's not surprising you make this claim. you are just lying like you always do.

I like the idea of Paper Ba... (Below threshold)
Mike Boelter:

I like the idea of Paper Ballots and electro-optical scanning of them. The scanning helps to quickly tabulate the vote count and the scanning software can be relatively simple and robust for security purposes.

Yes, one could possibly fiddle with the vote counting software but you would still need to be ready for the possibility of recounts which would require a stack of paper ballots that would need to be refed into the scanners. Paper is bulky and subject to forensic analysis (yes, even simple check marks can show variations in 'penmanship'). Not an easy thing to duplicate compared to the ease of tampering with electrons.

On the other side of prevention of election fraud I like think having voters dip a finger in ink would be a very good start, combined with requiring at least a level of ID required to rent a video from Blockbuster or cash a check at the local grocery store.

Correct me if I'm wrong ple... (Below threshold)

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

I have read online (can't find the link at this time) that the only states where the actual vote count did not match the exit polling were in diebold vote counting Virgina and Montanna.

Both were off by 4 to 5 percentage points in favor of the Republican candidate. In other words the actual victory should have been 4 to 5 percentage points larger for the Dems. So one could therorize that votes were flipped from Democrat to Republican just not enough to change the final outcome.

This could be one reason why we are not seeing a big push from the right for a recount because it will show Sen. Allen and Sen. Burns actually losing vote totals and exposing a big whole in our electoral process.

So yes Jay, I agree we need to fix this problem and I hope it gets done by 2008. We need the next President of the United States to have a clean win in order to restore confidence in our system of government and to move the country forward in uniting us not separating us.

LiveWhy is exit po... (Below threshold)


Why is exit polling considered as an equivalent OF voting?

Exit polling is so flawed as to be as reliable as phone polling. EP is self-selecting, where only people who want to speak to a pollster do. And then we have individual pollster prejudice into the mix (you should hear the stories when a pollster is given an answer they don't like).

I'll admit that I can be sn... (Below threshold)

I'll admit that I can be sneaky.

Let's not stop at Voter ID ... (Below threshold)

Let's not stop at Voter ID (a national Id that would automatically take you off the rolls in one place when you register in another would be nice) and electronic voting (quick counting) combined with a paper trails (for recounts if problems occur). Let's push for term limits of congressmen. The president is term limited, let our congressmen likewise be term limited. Representation should not be a permenant occupation. Those who govern, should have to live with the laws they make by having to go back into the private workforce. Limit Representatives to 3 terms and Senators to two. The less time in office, the less power any one person will have, and the less time to become corrupt.

Eliminate all earmarks. Spending bills should only have items that are related to that bill (ie to bridge in Alaska in an agriculture bill). Once all the necessary spending bills are done, use half of the resulting surplus to pay down the debt, and then use the other half for 'extra' item.

Cut spending by 5% a year, by reducing administratiion costs. Lay off some of the dead weight. Pay them 70% of their salary in year one and 35% in year two. Just think of the money saved in not paying for rented space for them, office supplies, A/C sucked up and much more. They could use that time to re-educate themselves and get a job in the 'real' world where you could actually get fired for not doing your work!

The Left screams about J... (Below threshold)

The Left screams about Jeb Bush and Katherin Harris being Republicans (and both were not invovled in the recounts)

Harris tried to certify the election for Bush while the recounts were still under way. I'd say that qualifies as being "involved in the recounts".

To try to swing changes ... (Below threshold)

To try to swing changes before the election would have been impossible. But right after one, you have a better chance

Lee's point is that you chose to speak up right after this election. Since I don't know, I'll rely on the honesty of your response. Did you speak up similarly "right after" the 2000 election? 2002? 2004?

Have you ever seen such sub... (Below threshold)

Have you ever seen such subjects as Diebold fraud, voter suppression, voter intimidation, disenfranchisement, etc. etc. die down so fast as they did Tuesday night?

Now that we know the Diebold conspiracy is a big nada, what will they use as an excuse for when we win back everything in 2008?

How about the Democrat G... (Below threshold)

How about the Democrat Governor of Washington having a miraculous recount and then shutting down all investigations of it?

How about the Republican candidate being the one to file the lawsuit in Washington? I thought Dems were the only ones who filed lawsuits over elections.

Oh yeah...

Republicans losing an election ask for recounts just as frequently as Democrats do. In fact, some of the GOP lawyers criticizing the hand count in Florida have mounted just this kind of legal appeal. In 1994, Bush lawyer Benjamin Ginsberg represented Edward Munster in requesting a recount and new election after Munster lost to Rep. Sam Gejdenson (D-Conn.) by four votes. The state's highest court ordered a recount, but in the end Gejdenson won by 21 votes.
What is extremely eviden... (Below threshold)

What is extremely evident from this election cycle is that losing Republicans have shown a great deal more class. No lawsuits


Have you ever seen such subjects as Diebold fraud, voter suppression, voter intimidation, disenfranchisement, etc. etc. die down so fast as they did Tuesday night?

The answer for both of you is the same: it's apples and oranges.

There were no major races where the margin between the candidates was such that a recount would have mattered, for either party. But I guarantee you that if Allen lost by hundreds of votes instead of thousands, he would have demanded a recount/filed a lawsuit. And if Webb lost by hundreds, he would have done the same.

But you can't say that someone "shows class" for not filing a lawsuit that had no chance of changing the outcome. Did Mountjoy show class by not filing a lawsuit against Feinstein?

I don't think electronic vo... (Below threshold)

I don't think electronic voting is on its face unreasonable. Someone just needs motivation to do it right. ATM machines work just fine, for the most part, including a paper trail. That's because banks have a financial incentive for making them accurate and fraud-proof. Unfortunately, no one has a compelling incentive for making voting machines that way.

Paper ballot are just as su... (Below threshold)

Paper ballot are just as subject to fraud, but they are superior because they are less subject to CENTRALIZED fraud.

Decentralized fraud tends to balance each other out - game theory - but centralized fraud falls one way or the other.

The fundamental problem with all state systems on the planet can be summed up as over centralization.

Not too much capitalism. Not too much statism. Not too much welfare.

Overcentralized capital, state, and bureaucracy are the problem.

There is a known solution, but power doesn't like to mention it. And is less and less likely to do so as it consolidates.

Something amusing happened ... (Below threshold)

Something amusing happened when I voted, which also pointed out an entirely unnoticed (by me, at least) advantage of having a "voter ID" card.

Each of us had to give our name to a poll-worker, so they could look us up in the voting roll. Ahead of me in line was a very old lady, who had trouble giving her name to the poll-worker. At the same time, a guy in the next check-in line pulled out his driver's license and gave it to the worker doing the lookups in his line. It took him ten seconds to get his name verified and checked off; it took the lady ahead of me three or four minutes. When I got to the head of the line, I simply gave the worker my driver's license, and it took me about ten seconds too.

[email protected], do I smell a little... (Below threshold)

[email protected], do I smell a little white lie in your post, or do you always just flat out lie. Link you can't remember, truth you can't remember? No such thing happened in Va, can't speak for the other state. Actually if Sen Allen had called for a total recount there is no doubt that 7,000 + dim votes would have been thrown out in Richmond alone. That is just the history of the place and you can't take all of the criminals dim's out of Richmond. The city would close down from lack of dishwashers and 'do you want fries with that' workers.
You heard his words, he chose not to put the state through months of legal maneuvers at the cost of millions. He is and has always been a gentleman. One of the greatest governors the state has ever had.

I'm still smiling and laughing. There is now way a party with no plan, as a fact not even a clue as to how to protect the country.

Only two things are now sure.
1.The NSA wiretap program is gone. The terrorist can now use the regular communications systems to plan their attacks.

2. The tax cuts are gone and every working class citizen will automatically receive a 22% tax increase while waiting for other increases. Several members of my family are professional tax preparers fm Ohio to Az., along with my next door neighbor. They have the numbers to back it up.

Actually make that three things. The U.S. will be hit and hit hard with no way to detect the coming attacks.

The terrorist can now us... (Below threshold)

The terrorist can now use the regular communications systems to plan their attacks.

Yep. And the Feds can continue to listen in on them legally under FISA, just as they always could.

Speaking of exit polling no... (Below threshold)

Speaking of exit polling not matching the election results, that reminds me that very thing happened in the Chavez election a couple of years ago. The numbers didn't add up. I heard they were way way off, and the anti Chavez people were protesting.

I noticed though that the NYT wrote an editorial saying it was time to "move on" and Carter couldn't put his stamp of approval on the election results fast enough. At the same time the democrats were still whining about the Ohio presidential ballot counting, and of course the NYT was not urging them to "move on" at all.

So don't be fooled. The dems care nothing about accurate voting. They only care about how they can cheat. They only raise this issue when they lose. They would lie, cheat, steal and kill to win elections. It's a fact.

I still remember how Dino R... (Below threshold)

I still remember how Dino Rossi won 2 years ago, and the Gregoire people asked for a recount, and eventually won because they saw how many votes they needed to win, and then they magically came up with them.

Nobody is fooled by these frauds.

I feel the optically scanne... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

I feel the optically scanned paper ballet is the most reliable voting system in use today. Voters put their ballet into the machine where it's immediately checked for errors and counted. If the ballet is invalid, the voter can do it over. Electronic voting machines are so flawed and subject to fraud that the only way to guarantee the count can't be tampered with is to never turn them on. A paper trail is meaningless if the machine can be hacked. ATM and electronic gambling machines are constantly being cheated by very crafty folks and there's no reason to think Electronic voting machines are not subject to the same attack. When it comes to voting systems "keep it simple stupid" is the key to success.

I support a national ID card that's at least as tough to get as a passport and contains biometrics information. Voting is a right, but only for citizens 18 years of age or older and still alive. If you don't have your ID when you go to vote, then you vote a provisional ballet. If the election is closer than the number of provisional ballets, then authorities go to the provisional ballets and count those which can be verified. That way your vote still counts if it's determined that you really are entitled to vote.

Scrapiron,Talk abo... (Below threshold)


Talk about white lies.

First off, I am so tired of the false claim that the NSA wiretap program is gone. The NSA wiretap program stays the same, the only difference is the WARRANTLESS program will now require a COURT approved WARRANT. Don't give me that BS it's too much paper work either, you know and I know that a warrant can be acquired up to 3 days AFTER the surveillance has occurred. Giving the intelligence agencies more than enough leeway to do their jobs. In the years the FISA court was in place before the current administration tried to circumvent it only 3 out of every 1,500 requests were ever turned down. I know over site is a bad idea for you but it keeps all of us safe from governmental abuse while at the same time keeps us safe from the bad guys. If the government has done nothing wrong than they have nothing to fear from seeking a warrant. The only time you or I would know about the warrant is after convictions were made and the perpetrators were on trial. This keeps our intelligence agencies working for all Americans not just the political party that happens to be in power. Would you give warrantless surveillance powers to Hillary Clinton or John Kerry?

Second, you must have one hell of a crystal ball to be able to see that clearly into the future. I know of no quote or written statement from any Democratic leader claiming a 22% tax increase for "every working class citizen. Now I have read about rolling back tax cuts for the top 1% or 2% of which I hardly believe would involve the working class. We can't keep borrowing and spending forever. We will have to balance the books someday.

Third, as far as the US being hit and hit hard. It sounds to me that by your statement and other statements you've made on other threads that you are anticipating this event with a hint of glee. Is this so you can say "I told you so" and then try to blame it on the Dems? If that's true than you need help brother.

We could eliminate a great ... (Below threshold)
Steve Rutledge:

We could eliminate a great deal of consternation by instituting a simple litmus test at the polls - If you have any urge to vote for Democratic candidates then you should be pronounced mentally deranged and prohibited from participating on the grounds that we will not allow the enemies of the US to take part in our electoral process.

I would like to know just h... (Below threshold)

I would like to know just how many absentee ballots did not get counted in this election, for whatever reason. Absentee Ballots,if verified to be legal, should be the FIRST to be tallied. Why this wait in JD Hayworth's district? These votes are legitimate and should be counted prior to a "call" on any election.

Darleen -Exit polling is ho... (Below threshold)

Darleen -Exit polling is how we Americans decide whether or not an election is legit (In 3rd world countries).

engineer -National ID program (How about a mandatory chip implanted in us? You're the type of person that really scares me).

Optical scanners used with a paper ballot and all ballots automatically archived! -Has my vote.

Any effort to try and curb ... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

Any effort to try and curb lefty voter fraud is shouted down as "voter intimidation". It's a lost cause.

we will not allow the en... (Below threshold)

we will not allow the enemies of the US to take part in our electoral process.

53% of the US is the enemy of the US?

I support a natio... (Below threshold)
I support a national ID card that's at least as tough to get as a passport and contains biometrics information.

Make it ENCRYPTED biometrics data, and I'm with you. Encrypted using the best encryption system known to man, created by a specially designed writer, and readable only by a specially designed scanner. Access to both strictly controlled.

brian-less (or shit for bra... (Below threshold)

brian-less (or shit for brains) to you think anyone believes anything that queer face runt called klugman writes or says? Sheeeze that worst then reading a post from "pucker puss" (lee lee)

jp2--"historic"-hilarious- ... (Below threshold)

jp2--"historic"-hilarious- it was less then any 6th year election in as far back as I can remember and I am 71 years old. Check your facts dumbass.

Nothing historic about this... (Below threshold)

Nothing historic about this election. Bush has done great compared to other presidents in how many seats lost. It's nothing compared to what Clinton lost.

What would have been "historic" is if Bush had picked up even more seats - as he has done in each election we've had since he's been elected.

So spare us the drama libbies. What happened was the norm. Not historical.

My friend was listening to ... (Below threshold)
Sandy P:

My friend was listening to the sports station where they don't talk politics, but 1 person wondered if Frist ticked off 2 million online poker players by wanting to ban it.

Nothing historic about t... (Below threshold)

Nothing historic about this election.

Just the first time in American political history that a party failed to pick up even a single seat from the opposition. Even in 1994, the Dems picked up four Republican seats. In 2006, the Republicans picked up... say it with me... zero.

That's historic. Your denials just make it bitterly historic.

[email protected] asks"Would... (Below threshold)

[email protected] asks
"Would you give warrantless surveillance powers to Hillary Clinton or John Kerry?"

Absolutely if either is serving as POTUS and here is why a warrant for the NSA program is NOT required.

The NSA program is a Military Operation. Its purpose is to gather Foreign Intelligence. The Constitution grants authority for both Military and Foreign Intelligence activities to the President. Warrants are not required for these operations for much the same reason that CB Radio transmissions do not require a warrant. In fact the NSA has no standing in Civilian Courts because it is not a prosecutorial program. The NSA cannot bring charges against parties and therefore cannot obtain a warrant from any Civilian Court.

The NSA conducts three types of electronic surveillance activity:
1. Communications originated by Foreign located parties and ending with Foreign located parties
2. Communications originated by Foreign located parties and ending with Domestic US located parties
3. Communications originated by Domestic US located parties and ending with Foreign Located parties
Foreign defined as located outside US controlled territory. Domestic US defined as located inside US controlled territory.

It is generally agreed that #1 does not require any warrant. The Bush Administration has specified that at least one of the parties be Identified as Terror Connected. No electronic intercepts are taking place that involve entirely Domestic US to Domestic US locations.

Prosecution of persons in the US is a Civilian Operation. It operates under the authority of the various law enforcement agencies with oversight from various Courts. The Constitution protects those parties in the US by prohibiting "Unreasonable Search and Seizure" and the various Courts decide the conditions necessary for the issuance of warrants to gather evidence necessary to bring charges in a Civilian Court. Civilian Law enforcement agencies have no standing to bring charges in Military Courts.

During the Clinton years, sharing of information between the Military and Civilian law enforcement was prohibited. "The 9/11 Commission Report" referred to this lack of shared information between Domestic and Foreign Agencies of the Government as one of the reasons we failed to connect the dots. Commonly known as "The Wall", the Bush administration ended this lack of co-operative information sharing between the Military Foreign Intelligence NSA type programs and Civilian Law Enforcement programs.

In the simplest of terms, these two types of actions (one Military and the other Civilian) are separate and receive their authority from separate sources. They have both been separately operating for many years. However, the removal of "The Wall", suddenly raises the question of the necessity for warrants. But why?

This melding of two different operations is Already being carried on with the FISA and other Courts issuing Case-By-Case warrants on a Constitutional Basis. For example if an NSA type program develops information of a plan to damage US parties or Property while electronically monitoring communications between a Foreign located party and a Domestic US party, and one or more of the parties to the communications has Terrorist connections, the information concerning the Domestic US party is shared with the FBI or other Law Enforcement Agencies. Upon further investigation by the Domestic Law Enforcement Agency, revealing a criminal event, an application is made to the FISA court for a warrant. Then if the FISA Court decides a warrant is justified the appropriate activity continues and hopefully leads to charges being brought in a Civilian Court.

It is very important to understand that NSA is an Intelligence NOT a Prosecutorial program. It is only when Civilian Court Crimes are being pursued that a warrant may become necessary. Those who say a warrant is necessary for NSA type monitoring do not understand the difference between the functions of the branches of our government. To require a warrant for NSA type electronic surveillance programs is an infringement on the separate functions of the different branches of Government. There currently is Congressional oversight of these programs, through various Military, Finance and Intelligence Committees in both the House and Senate. This oversight is part of the spirit and the meaning of the Language of the Constitution. It follows the ideals of checks and balances of the three branches.

Those of us in Ohio have su... (Below threshold)

Those of us in Ohio have suffered through 2 years of vague claims about fraud that no one seems to be able to document. Some of the districts complaining about the lack of machines and long lines (the basis for the claims of voter fraud) were some of the same districts that turned around and sued the Secretary of State's Office to block him from changing the election system from the status quo.

This past Tuesday, when I went to the polls, I discovered that my voter registration had been cancelled. A card - allegedly - had been sent to my home to verify my address, etc. and, according to the Board of Elections, returned for "unspecified reasons". Since I haven't moved in the last three years, live alone, have voted regularly in elections, have never been arrested, have had no other mail go missing, and have a postman who is a family friend, I can't imagine what those "unspecified reasons" might have been.

However, I was told that I was one of 5000 people in my county who had that happened. Accounting for the relative size of my county, if such cards were sent state-wide as my local Board of Elections claims was required by law, that means over 400,000 voters in Ohio were affected.

I too am concerned by the actual mechanism of voting, but that pales in comarison to the possibilities for fraud in the system itself.

ACORN was that group of tro... (Below threshold)
spurwing plover:

ACORN was that group of troublemakers who invaded congressional HQ a few years back waving the foodtrays i mean then they get laws passed the trying a sue so they dont have to follow these same laws its about time that ACORN lost its tax exempt status along with PETA

I have read online (can'... (Below threshold)

I have read online (can't find the link at this time) that the only states where the actual vote count did not match the exit polling were in diebold vote counting Virgina and Montanna.

Funny, since Barone said that FNC threw out their exit polls because Dems' exit polls --- routinely --- were about 6 points higher on average than their final numbers were.

Harris tried to certify the election for Bush while the recounts were still under way. I'd say that qualifies as being "involved in the recounts".

Considering that the Sec. of State in FL is the only one who can certify results --- and, at the risk of being technical, she was the Sec. of State --- no, she didn't interfere. She simply said "Results will be certified at this point" -- which she alone has the power to do --- and, lo and behold, she did it.






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