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The Lament Of Those Melanin-Deprived And Testosterone-Enhanced

Yesterday, I spent a rather lengthy time discussing the future of race relations in America. (Being a white male from one of the whitest states in the Union, I figured my contribution was what was most lacking in the matter.) I said that in order for there to be a truly just society, we need to put aside the past and focus on the future. That past grievances and offenses and sins need to be dropped and all our energy focused on making tomorrow better, not atoning for yesterday.

Well, that ain't gonna happen, and before it does, I want to get a few things off my chest.

Kindly note this is not a call for reparations or a cry for sympathy or a plea for compassion. This is an old-fashioned venting, a purging of repressed resentment, a cathartic outburst to cleanse my soul. I'm not looking for anything but a few moments of your time, to at least pretend to listen and pay attention to me while I rant. (It is my understanding that this is what women say they want when they have their outbursts, and not an attempt to solve solutions, which is what us men -- big ninnies that we are -- instead try to do.)

What Being White And Male Means To This White Man

Being a white man has become, in many ways, a mark of shame today.

Finding a positive image of ourselves on TV is next to impossible. We tend to be villains or inept doofuses.

Message to white men: you're not good for anything.

My employer recently sent out a memo saying that, in the interests of promoting and preserving diversity in our workforce, management must give an exit interview to all female and minority employees who quit.

Message to white men: We don't care if you stay or go.

The famous University of Michigan affirmative action case involved giving "points" towards admission to minorities. Being black, Hispanic, or American Indian was worth more, on their scale, than a perfect score on the SATs.

Men tend to be more analytical, and see things in mathematical terms. Under the admission rules, anyone who scored 100 points on their admission test (which ran from 0 to 150) was guaranteed admission. A perfect SAT score was worth 12 points; being a member of the above mentioned groups was worth 20.

So, mathematically, what would be the net difference if instead the rules said "if you are not black, Hispanic, or American Indian, and rather are white or Asian or some other group, deduct 20 points" and the admission bar was lowered to 80 of a possible 130? Absolutely none. If every score -- and the qualifying bar -- was lowered 20 points across the board, the results would be exactly the same. The only difference would be perceptual -- instead of giving some bonus points for their ethnicity, they would be left alone and everyone else would be penalized. As they say, "a difference without distinction" or "a difference that makes no difference is no difference."

Message to white men: We don't want you here.

(I'm stealing a bit from P. J. O'Rourke in this section.) Breast cancer is a huge cause these days. Pink ribbons are everywhere. Public service announcements saturate the airwaves. Tons of research (and research funding) is poured into fighting this scourge every year. (Not that I'm complaining.)

The result: breast cancer claimed about 40,000 women's lives in 2005 -- and it's dropping.

On the other hand, let's look at prostate cancer. In 2005, it claimed the lives of 30,000 men -- and it's rising. Where are our protests? Our fund-raisers? Our brown ribbons? Instead, the most common exam for prostate cancer is usually the "butt" of jokes.

Personally speaking, I had a colonoscopy once. I showed up with a button and offered the doctor a deal: he didn't hurt me, he could have it. It said "Your proctologist called; they found your head." He didn't keep his end of the bargain, but I gave it to him anyway.

Message to men: We don't care if you live or die.

But we're men. We're supposed to be tough and strong. It's not manly to complain. We're supposed to suck it up, take it like a man, shrug it off, don't let it get us down, deal with it. We are expected to keep our negative feelings and anger and resentment and hurt bottled up and repressed and put on our brave faces to face the world.

Consequently, we have heart attacks and strokes and ulcers and all the other things that go with that kind of repression and suppression. And our life expectancy is, on average, about five years less than women's.

Message to men: Go ahead and die already. Just do it quietly and don't bother anyone.

It just isn't in the entertainment business that men -- especially white men -- are the most common villains. The political correctness movement made an art out of blaming all of Western society's woes on "dead white European males." Whenever redress is being sought for past injustices, it's most often on the behalf of the descendants of the oppressed. What is always implied -- but rarely stated -- is that those reparations are to come from the descendants of the oppressors. And those are most often white males. Even though today's white males had, in almost every case, absolutely nothing to do with the original sins, they are expected to pay the price for choosing their ancestry so poorly.

Message to white men: We can't go after the people who did the offense, so we're going to punish you in their place because you look like them.

This is our lot in life. This is the hand life has dealt us. It's all part of the male package (so to speak), and we deal with it.

About the only time we bring up our grievances is when we've heard the complaints of others to us, lamenting how terrible it is to not be white and male. The implication there is that simply being white and male is an automatic boost, a clear-cut advantage, a panacea to a host of ills and injustices, and we white males must somehow make concessions and forfeit some of our advantages in the name of "fairness" and "equality" and "justice."

Oh, and don't expect any thanks or other recognition for it. Rather, plan for mockery and derision and scorn either way.

We can live with that. We'll just "act like we got a pair" and "man up" and "be men."

(Anyone who starts singing "we're men -- manly men! -- we're men in tights!" will be beaten severely.)


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Comments (43)

I agree with almost all of ... (Below threshold)

I agree with almost all of your rant except for the prostate cancer vent. If men want increased prostate cancer awareness, it's up to men to build that awareness. Do you think women just sat around dying until some other group decided to raise awareness for breast cancer? Nope. Women themselves took it upon themselves to raise public awareness. Get a group together and start making those brown ribbons, Jay. ;)

Jay, you forgot one. Often... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

Jay, you forgot one. Often you'll hear in the news that such and such an attack was an atrocity because it killed women and children. The message there is that it's ok to kill men.

Also, you'll often see or hear a sentence where "Women" is used for that gender and "males" is used for the other. These are not equivalent terms and using them together sends the message that "males" are less than human. For example, Women make only 80% as much as males.

"Finding a positive image o... (Below threshold)

"Finding a positive image of ourselves on TV is next to impossible. We tend to be villains or inept doofuses."

And the police lieutenant is always black. Always. Except when one of the street partners is black. "Law and Order: Criminal Intent" is the only exception I can think of.

"My employer recentl... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

"My employer recently sent out a memo saying that, in the interests of promoting and preserving diversity in our workforce, management must give an exit interview to all female and minority employees who quit."

Not giving every employee an Exit Interview seems like a really bad business practice (besides giving the impression that they "don't care").

This all has happened becau... (Below threshold)

This all has happened because as men we became timid and afraid to voice our opinion because of what people might label us. I feel no guilt about anything. If you feel guilty it is because you have convinced yourself that you have done something wrong. ww

Two words : Affirmative act... (Below threshold)

Two words : Affirmative action

As a white, blond hair, blue eyed male I have been discriminated in EVERY workplace I've been in since they started to 'enforce' it in the 70's. I've seen totally incompetent coworkers promoted to positions they couldn't handle. I can only wonder at what jobs I applied for that were filled by someone of lesser qualifications who did because of their skin color or gender.

Does it aggrivate me? Not any more because as society dumbs itself down I can see the end game, its called retirement. Then I can sit back and laugh as the spiral towards the "endarkenment" increases.

Mike, ever notice that near... (Below threshold)

Mike, ever notice that nearly every single judge on TV is a black woman?


WildWillie,I don't... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


I don't believe guilt is the only reason men don't speak up about injustices they suffer. I think the major reason is that men are less emotional. Emotion is mental energy and motivation. That energy and motivation drives women to protest when they perceive an injustice.

Case in point. We often hear news stories of a man (often black) who has been exonerated after serving more than a decade in prison for a crime DNA now proves he didn't commit. The backdrop to this is that more then 3 times as many men are in prison than women. In addition, laws now protect the identity and hide the background of alleged rape victims, but not of alleged perpetrators (you know, the old innocent until proven guilty thing). Add to that the recent Duke case where no action was taken against the women for falsely accusing the men.

If you swapped the genders around women would be outraged at the injustice, holding mass protests and demanding changes in the law to correct the obvious injustice. With men, however, there's no emotional reaction and no energy to ban together to protest the obvious injustice. Instead we deal with such things as individuals and hope we don't get targeted by a mentally deranged women who has a need for attention as a rape victim and thinks all men are guilty anyway.

Ah Gee, ya mean we have hea... (Below threshold)

Ah Gee, ya mean we have heart attacks and strokes because we repress things? I thought it was all those pork rinds, cigarettes and malt liquor.

Cancer death rates for men are falling as well as for women. Cancer death rates are falling for blacks, faster than for whites. It parallels the drop in lung cancer deaths and smoking. I suspect that less smoking is the main cause, rather than treatment or screening. There's plenty of evidence that cancer patients of any sort who smoke die quicker and are more likely to die than non-smokers. That's not to belittle the benefits of modern treatment advances, but they work a whole lot better in non-smokers, and there is a whole lot more of the population that doesn't smoke these days.

Epador -You can ha... (Below threshold)

Epador -

You can have my pork rinds when you pry the bag from my cold, dead hand.

(Ironically, though, my eating them will make that happen sooner rather than later. So, if you want some pork rinds, just hang around!)

I'll grant you that being w... (Below threshold)

I'll grant you that being white and male is tougher these days. However, being an male of asian descent, we not only don't benefit from affirmative action, but we also seem to get the second looks from most women, including the asian ones. It could be worse.

.Damnit Jay you're having a... (Below threshold)

.Damnit Jay you're having a Discussion! You're not allowed to speak!!!!

Last time a bunch of RWM (Real White Men) got together and acted in massed it was instantly dismissed as "Angry White Men"

I hate to say it but I wasn't that angry, just tired, the same kind of tired I am every Thursday when I drag my ass to work. Knowing I got another day of the same shite, the weekend is taken up by stuff I'll have to do, (and it WILL get done, that's a trait of RWM) just to repeat on Monday. Friday I'll get a check with almost a third of it taken out to pay for those asleep in their beds, or watching their big screen TV's, as I ride off to help the wheels of this country turn.

That night I'll site down in front of my little 27" TV (paid for in cash mind you, RWM don't use credit) and we'll get 3-4 hours of propaganda letting us know that we're just sexist Neanderthals and that only our wives are smart enough to handle the big decisions, that we can't fix anything around that house and that we should call a professional, that we are hopelessly "out of it" and that needs to be pointed out to us by our snarky children.

The news will berate us for thinking we should keep more of the fruits of our labor, and what we have been able to save for ourselves is just a result of our centuries of oppression of minorities. The few mementos we kept on the wall of our service to our country is just another trophy of our backwards unenlightened thinking. Ort Clothes? We need 5 gay gays who never worked in a dirty environments or worked (or played) out side to come in and fix our "look"

We're not angry, just tired. Sick and Tired, You wouldn't like us when we're angry. When we get angry things change....Things get broke and sacred cattle get turning to tasty un-PC beefsteaks. Hmmmmm Steak.....

To all women or people of "... (Below threshold)

To all women or people of "color" I have always extended the same offer ... you do your best and I'll do my best ... If I win I WIN, if you win YOU WIN ... I will gloat about the victory if it is mine and I fully expect you do the same ...

In other words you will always get a fair shake and more than a fair fight but I OWE YOU NOTHING more than that and never will.

Why do husbands die before ... (Below threshold)

Why do husbands die before their wives?

Because we want to!


I think you missed the most discrimantory part. When being dis'd all men are lumpedt together, we don't even get the pleasure of being identified by our true minority status. White men are just white men. We don't get listed as English White men, or German White men, or Italian White men etc. When broken out by heriditary ethnic groupings, "white" men are some of the smallest minorities around. White males of english extraction, are one of the smallest measured minorities, but we get no respect, no heritage month, only a bill for others child-support.

My only consolation is that white men of English descent ruled most of the known world at one time, and the other groups are still dreaming about it.

Since I retired, I don't ge... (Below threshold)

Since I retired, I don't get angry anymore. When the PC comments flow I merely say "talk to me AFTER you pull your head out of your ass, otherwise STFU."

Jeez, what a bunch of whiny... (Below threshold)

Jeez, what a bunch of whiny little bitches. Guess what, the world ain't fair. We do the heavy lifting because we're MEN. White men happen to have dominated the planet. Deal with it. Or should I dial 9-whine-whine and get you all a waaahmbulance? God, you "guys" make me sick.

Sounds suspiciously like a ... (Below threshold)

Sounds suspiciously like a guilt trip to me.That said, it'll be a cold day when I feel guilt about doing the best I can throughout my life, regardless of who postulates about what.

A real man doesn't whine ab... (Below threshold)

A real man doesn't whine about his situation.

He adapts and overcomes. I've done quite well in several realms - e.g. educationally, professionally, romantically (with women of all colors), as a white man.

max and galoob,Wha... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:

max and galoob,

What, too lazy to read Jay's piece before popping off about how "real men" deal with adversity, or didn't you get it? Show some backbone and cough up your own story of how men are discriminated against. No one's asking you to whine, just write the truth with your own trembling hands. Or are you some pansy ass wimp that's too scared your wife's going to find out?

I read the post, Mac. It's... (Below threshold)

I read the post, Mac. It's ridiculous.

For example, to compare the fast-metastasizing breast cancer which often strikes and kills women in the prime of life with the slow-growing, more easily cured prostrate cancer which typically strikes older men is an absurdity. Breast cancer and prostrate cancer are not equivalent threats to women and men respectively, just because some men die of prostrate cancer.

The broader premise is also ridiculous, in my opinion. Even with the benefits of affirmative action, how many white men think that they'd be better off black?

And the winner of the pink ... (Below threshold)

And the winner of the pink panties for whiniest bitch is... Mac Lorry! The truth? You, sir, are incapable of coping with the truth. And I'm not scared of my wife, but you should be. Obviously she could kick your little bitch-ass with one manicured hand tied behind her back.

Jay, I understand perfectly... (Below threshold)

Jay, I understand perfectly what you are trying to say, although it's only true part of the time. It's like that pendulum swing that keeps trying to find a balance. When it swings way in your direction, you feel like the brunt of the hardship as well as the joke. Venting about this is perfectly find, as I am sure that many men have felt the same way you have. I don't think I personally have made any man feel that way, because, in general, I like them too much. I am sorry if you were made to feel that way, however, as we all have that moment when we feel isolated in one category.

I am also very aware that the purpose of this post was not was to display a human side. For those "macho" commenters above, this was not an opportunity for you to display how "manly" you are with your weightlifting or to brag about how many different races and colors of women you banged for sport. The cancer stats were used metaphorically, but I would expect you guys to get that, either.

You can alway count on me to read it objectively if you just have to vent, Jay.

Correction: wouldn't expect... (Below threshold)

Correction: wouldn't expect you guys...

One added thought: C'mon, now. It's okay for a man to be vulnerable every once and a while. That's another (overlooked) reason why women are around.

galoob,You make so... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


You make some good points about breast vs. prostrate cancer, but now apply your logic to heart disease and you'll start to see the difference. Men and women die of this disease, but for women it's a decade or two later than for men, yet now women's heart disease is getting a lot more attention then for men.

If you read my post #8 you'll get a sense of how laws are written to favor the accuser in a rape case even though there's documented evidence that innocent men are already serving long prison sentences for crimes they didn't commit. If the genders were reversed you know women would be outraged, but men are expected to take it like men. Well when "it" is injustice not opposing it has nothing to do with taking it like a man, but rather it's taking it like a fool.

What explains there being 3.2 white men in prison for every white women. Do you just think men are 3.2 times as bad as women? Consider Jim and Tammy Baker's multimillion-dollar PTL television ministries. Well things went bad and Jim was convicted of bankruptcy fraud and spent about two years in prison. Tammy wasn't even charged with a crime, yet had this been a divorcee case Tammy's contribution to the ministries would have automatically been considered equal with Jim's. Don't you see what's going on. Women are not held to the same standard as men in criminal cases. That's an injustice and men taking it like fools just promotes more injustice.

The 3.2 to 1 discrepancy can't be explained entirely by different standards for men and women in criminal cases. What studies have been done show that men are more aggressive and more likely to take risks, and that's why so many more are in prison. That satisfies society and we move on. However, when there's a discrepancy between men's pay and women's pay it's accepted that the only explanation is discrimination. However, a recent study showed there was another reason. The study followed young collage graduates as they entered the workplace. Sure enough, as a group, the men started for more money then the women, but it wasn't because of discrimination. It was found that men didn't settle for the first salary offered, but asked for more. The same propensity for aggressiveness and risks taking was the reason men started for more money than women.

Rather than discrimination, it's men's propensity for aggressiveness and risks taking, when productively directed, that results in most CEOs and highly paid professionals being men. Of course, women don't accept the aggressiveness and risks taking explanation apart from the reason so many men are in prison. The myth women hold onto is that a woman is just as good as any man, but not near as bad.

Be a man, and don't take it like a fool.

Max,You,re either ... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


You,re either a fool or a women here to pull the same old trick on men when they start to see the injustice in our society.

When it comes to self-sacrifice, then by all means take it like a man, but when it comes to injustice, taking it makes you a fool.

"The myth women hold ont... (Below threshold)

"The myth women hold onto is that a woman is just as good as any man, but not near as bad."

Not all women, MacLorry. The myth is only available to those who are aware of it on a personal level.

"Be a man, and don't take it like a fool."

Well said, and I completely agree.

Not all women, Mac... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Not all women, MacLorry. The myth is only available to those who are aware of it on a personal level.

Oops, I should have said some women's groups. The myth can be restated as the "glass ceiling" myth. Like all myths there's some truth to it, but it's far from the whole truth.

boo freakin hoo.:)... (Below threshold)

boo freakin hoo.


Mac,The point abou... (Below threshold)


The point about rape laws is valid, but white men have not been the major victims of those laws - black men who were misidentified by white women are, if my read of post-sentencing DNA exonerations is correct. That's a male/female issue, not a white/black thing.

As far as incarceration rates go, men commit far more of the violent offenses which will land you in prison for a long time. If it wasn't for mandatory-minimum sentences in drug offenses, like what you get if you're carrying an ounce of cocaine or heroin, there would be a lot less women in prison.

To Ms. Medusa: I never "banged" any woman of any color "for sport," I made love to them.

"To Ms. Medusa: I never ... (Below threshold)

"To Ms. Medusa: I never "banged" any woman of any color "for sport," I made love to them."

Fine, as long as that is how they felt before and after the experience. That it was actually love. My apologies for using the words "for sport". I question whether or not the above statement is relevant to this post, however.

galoob,I'm not add... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


I'm not addressing racial differences because there are some real discrimination issues surrounding race. I'm sticking to gender because women are the majority and don't need to be defended in the political realm. Men are the minority and need to speak out against injustices they face. Silence about injustice only brings about more injustice.

As far as incarceration rates go, men commit far more of the violent offenses which will land you in prison for a long time.

No one denies that men commit more offenses than women. The reason, according to several studies, is not that men are inherently more evil, but that they are more aggressive and more willing to take risks. Society accepts that, but then denies that aggression and risk taking, when positively directed, helps men achieve greater success in the workplace. Women's groups see any disparity in pay and position between men and women in the workplace as discrimination, not as an inherent difference between genders. Yet these same women's groups are perfectly satisfied with the disparity in imprisonment rates and attribute that to inherent difference between genders. Logically women's groups can't have it both ways, but they have it both ways because men foolishly think it's manly to quietly accept injustice.

A few years ago a young man and women checked into a hotel. She was pregnant with the man's child, but neither wanted that child. Foolishly, they came to the hotel to perform an abortion. Some time later the authorities found out and charged the man with murder, but not the women because she had the right to an abortion. The man was convicted and sent to prison and the women moved on with her life. If the act was an abortion, then why was the man charged and convicted of murder?. If the women had the right to an abortion and to seek an abortionist to perform it, why is it murder for the father to perform the abortion? Whatever your political view is on abortion this case reeks of gender discrimination. Predictably, the reaction from men was just a big yawn.

As long as men foolishly confuse taking self-sacrifice like a man with taking injustice the same way, the injustice grows. Men need to speak up, if not for themselves then for their sons.

Prostate cancer under the a... (Below threshold)

Prostate cancer under the age of 65 is at least as deadly as breast cancer.

But to get back to the spir... (Below threshold)

But to get back to the spirit of Jay's post. And echoing some of the comments.

I grew up in a neighborhood in suburban DC where the help from many embassies shared space with a mostly Seventh Day Adventist population. As a WASP, I was a REAL minority. Not that I felt particularly excluded, I just didn't feel superior or special due to my race or religion. And I felt comfortable with my friends and their families of many colors and languages. I even went to Saturday School with my SDA friends. Being on the outside looking in, I would have never been taken seriously trying to complain about having to continually pass as SDA or French.

During this time, the turbulent late fifties and early sixties, a ride on the bus through DC, however, exposed me to rioting black teenagers throwing rocks at the bus I was riding on with my mother. I never found out what the fuss was about. I never associated the threat with race, just crazy kids in a crowd. I've never felt comfortable in crowded situations since. Especially when high school age kids are the main demographic.

Then my family moved to a NJ suburb where everyone was white. But they seemed to be all Jewish or Catholic. So as a WASP I was a different sort of minority. I went to a little one room church while my friends went to huge temples or cathedral-sized churches where people spoke in strange languages and performed bizarre rites by electric candle light. Many of my contemporaries there used the "N" word pejoratively. I had a hard time finding more than a few tolerant and enlightened individuals to share time with. But as a WM, a minority WASP, suppressed by my white Judeo-Catholic neighbors, I still had no avenue for complaint.

I've worked under bosses of all shapes, sizes , colors, sex and sexual persuasions. The only time I felt a victim of racism was under one boss who openly favored men of her own race over any other men and women. I don't think she was aware, or thought others were aware, of her obvious bias. But boy, as a WM, there was NO WAY I was going to call her on it.

But now, Decades later, Here in this Thread, I make my pronouncement:

I'm a white Swedish/Scottish/English/Melungeon lapsed Protestant, I'm PROUD of it, an no way the WOMAN is going to keep me down.

Ooops, sorry, my she-can't-be-my-ex-wife-soon-enough's lawyer just laid another paper on me. Be back later.

Mac, you make valid points,... (Below threshold)

Mac, you make valid points, but why complain about what some women's groups complain about, if those complaints are not valid?

If pay disparity is (partly) due to women taking time off to raise kids, different career priorities, etc., that pay disparity will persist despite complaints by Gloria Steinem or NOW.

galoob, Even thoug... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


Even though complaints by women's groups may not be valid, as the voting majority, their complaints get addressed in law. The results can be seen in rape and divorce law where men are at a measurable legal disadvantage. Some states have passed "comparable worth" laws that override the free labor market and impose artificial linkage between jobs women usually hold and jobs men usually hold. The result is that clerks working in environmentally controlled, safe and comfortable conditions get paid the same as heavy equipment operators. You know, like snowplow drivers who risk their lives to keep roads open, road most people can't even see in the dark during a snow storm. If the genders were reversed there would be such an outcry from women that no politician would be able to ignore it.

With men, such injustices are just another big yawn, which emboldens women to demand more and more unfair advantages. Politicians find it easy to give women what they ask for because men never complain.

MacLorry,Can you c... (Below threshold)


Can you cite which states have passed this law and what you mean by "artificial linkage"?

You say, "If the genders were reversed there would be such an outcry from women that no politician would be able to ignore it."

However, this is based on a consistency that there are specific jobs that men hold as well as those by women. Then you attempt to use a scenario that is not likely to happen to prove your point.

Can you cite which... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
Can you cite which states have passed this law and what you mean by "artificial linkage"?

The comparable worth battle has mostly been lost by feminists except in a few liberal strongholds like Minnesota (longest unbroken record of voting for the Democratic Presidential candidate than any other state). I have a close friend who lives there and the scenario I gave is his actual experience.

After serving in Vietnam, he attended a 2 year heavy equipment trade school and has been working with heavy equipment for many years. Under comparable worth his wages are tied to those of county clerks. The logic is that both positions require 2 years of college or trade school. It's the old equal pay for equal work linkage, but those making the linkage give little weight to the difference in working conditions and in personal and public risks of the job. The greatest risk the clerks face is braking a nail, the risks my friend faces on a daily bases includes the lives of the public and his own life. Furthermore, he has a union job and when they negotiate for higher wages the clerks automatically get the same increases, but without taking any risk, such as going on strike.

This is such an injustice that if it were perpetrated against women they would be making angry calls and protesting at the capital until such laws were obliterated. Women are on alert for such discrimination and they don't take it. For men, not even those directly effected can muster up enough emotional energy to protest.

What mystifies me is, how did men every muster up the energy to go to war before there were societies organized well enough to compel them and/or pay them? I'm starting to think it's the women who pushed them into it.

"I'm starting to think i... (Below threshold)

"I'm starting to think it's the women who pushed them into it."

How far back are you going here? For centuries, women were excluded from most things regarded as masculine because they were labeled the "weaker sex." I doubt any woman bestowed this title upon herself, so there wasn't even an inclination to do any pushing.

How far back are y... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:
How far back are you going here?

Back "before there were societies organized well enough to compel them and/or pay them." The time would be different in different parts of the world.

For centuries, women were excluded from most things regarded as masculine because they were labeled the "weaker sex."

Of course, there were queens before there were nations that gave women the right to vote. Cleopatra goes back to 69 BC. The old saying is that behind every successful man there's a women. I think that's still true to a large part. Women energize their men to be successful.

Here's a question few get right. How did American men get the right to vote? Once you figure that out ask how did American women get the right to vote? Hint, the difference corresponds to the emotional strengths of each gender. With that understood, you'll see why women have a political advantage in our society beyond their numbers, but are at a disadvantage in the workplace and free market. Every boy's mother should learn this.

"Here's a question few g... (Below threshold)

"Here's a question few get right. How did American men get the right to vote?"

You might want to save everyone the time and provide the answer in your mind with links and sources, Mac Lorry. That way, at least we all start on the same page with this discussion, then decide where it goes from there. Just because we don't know what you are thinking, means only you have the right answer.

LaMedusa, I think I got wha... (Below threshold)

LaMedusa, I think I got what Mac was alluding to, and it's a powerful point:

Men got the right to vote because they demanded it, and waged a revolutionary war to get it.

Women got the right to vote by persuasion, and the 19th Amendment, I suspect, received very few (if any) votes from women.

I'm gonna have to let that one bounce around my brain for a bit. I might even steal it for a posting...


Cool, Jay. Thanks! :) I'd... (Below threshold)

Cool, Jay. Thanks! :) I'd like to see a post from you on this. You're correct, it was the obvious answer that eluded me. :)

LaMedusa,I asked t... (Below threshold)
Mac Lorry:


I asked the question because I wanted you to really think about the issue.

Jay got it right. To get their right to vote American men risked their lives in a war few expected they could win. That plays to the emotional strengths of men, which are aggression and risk taking. American women got their right to vote by organizing marches and protests, which involved little risk if they failed, but which took enormous motivational energy to wage their suffrage movement. One that few expected they could win.

It's what I have been saying above. It takes emotional energy to mount a sustained protest large enough to overthrow the political inertia of the status quo, and as a group, women have much more of that than men. Succeeding in war and business often requires aggression and risk taking, and as a group, men have much more of these than women.

In our current society women are quick to mount a protest against any injustice they encounter. Men yawn at these injustices, and so, they will face more of them. Women take a job and take what pay they are given and few are willing to risk their assets on business ventures or make a risky move to jump to the head of a department or company. Men are out their right now remortgaging their homes so they can buy up foreclosed properties, and if all works out, make lots of money. If it doesn't work they will be homeless.

Why every boy's mother needs to know this is that there are growing attempts to even out the outcomes in business. Women are using their political advantage to neutralize men's advantages. Maybe they should speak out against such injustices on behalf of men, for the sake of their sons. If not, then their sons may have to fight another war of liberation.






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