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Obama and the Veterans 2008

Today is the day that America remembers its veterans. I wonder how President-Elect Obama will respect and honor - oh that's right, this is the guy whose campaign worked so hard to keep overseas military ballots from being counted this election. Continuing the fine democrat tradition of 'loathing' the military, donchano?


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Comments (78)

How is railing against Obam... (Below threshold)

How is railing against Obama being respectful to veterans? Hint: it isn't.

Why don't you create a separate diary to rail against Obama?

'Railing'? This is hardly ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

'Railing'? This is hardly 'railing'.

You seem easily irked, BN. The truth will do that, hmm?

Obama will make some token ... (Below threshold)

Obama will make some token statement but, that's all it will be.

I'm not sure exactly of the... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

I'm not sure exactly of the date, it was during the primaries, but someone posted an essay on wizbang encouraging people to be supportive of the Commander-in-Chief no matter who it is. Remember that?

DJ I would conside... (Below threshold)


I would consider you to be, by a long way, the most rational and talented writer on Wizbang. But you are not doing yourself any favours by carrying on with this non stop anti Obama tirade.

So, you are unhappy about Obama's win. This we understand, but do you have to spin every topic you write about into an anti Obama rant?

Move on...............it's beyond boring!

Supportive of the office? ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Supportive of the office? Sure.

Judge actions on their merits? Good idea.

Blindly approving of the person? No.

Democrats as a group have been anti-military for the last generation, and Obama's statements and actions have been in line with Murtha and Reid's spit-on-the-troops motif.

Obama does not get to ignore his own behavior just because he won the election. If he can change it and show respect for the troops and their mission, that would be great, but he gets what he sows.

Tirade?Rant?... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:



Oh my goodness, maybe I need to write a genuine "rant" so you can tell the difference.

DJHe's honoring th... (Below threshold)


He's honoring the vets by laying a wreath in Chicago, the same as President Bush is doing in Washington.

The rest of your comment is just silly and ought to be beneath you. My guess is there are as many dead vets who were democrats as there are dead republican vets. All you're going to do with this post is stir up the lame democrats hate the military and the lame republicans are chicken hawks arguments.

Get out of the schoolyard and write something else will ya.

Never gave Obama the slight... (Below threshold)

Never gave Obama the slightest consideration for my vote. But today it's about veterans and their service to our country.

<a href="http://www.youtube... (Below threshold)
Pretzel Logic:
Obama's support for the mil... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Obama's support for the military is nonexistent and you know it, JFO. As to honoring the military today, that's a good idea and worthy of its own post. But since you and Adriane and Blue and James took it upon yourselves to be offended on Obama's behalf, I might reasonably ask why you focused on him and not the troops, given your own claims about today?

Too close to home, I'd say. Too much truth for you to let it go.

JDIt is yourself w... (Below threshold)


It is yourself who took the focus away from the day by your using this post to have another side swipe at Obama.

Clearly, you are still pissed off at the outcome of the election. Not content with voicing your disatisfaction, you are now throwing your toys from the pram by using your column to spin every story into an Obama rant.

Move on, deal with it, get therapy if you have to but please dont let Obama become the focus of your posts.

Hey, if it's Veteran's Day,... (Below threshold)

Hey, if it's Veteran's Day, a National holiday to honor our vets, why did we just have to chase the trash guys down the street??? Aren't they supposed to come tomorrow instead???

No DJ ,You offended me beca... (Below threshold)

No DJ ,You offended me because of your offensive silly generalization of the "democratic tradition of loathing the military." It's a lie, it's immature, it's stupid and it's inane, just as the chickenhawk argument is. All it does it strat a schoolyard argument about who loves America more. I gave you more credit than that.

I give no credence to you, TJ or folks like wildwillie when you opine about Obama since you have no idea what he will do as president. What I read is just sour grapes pre-judgment. After he's president we can argue about the merits of what he does or doesn't do.

YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... (Below threshold)


OK JFO. Then explain to me... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

OK JFO. Then explain to me why no leading democrat demanded Congressman Murtha apologize for slandering Marines?

Explain to me why every election it's lawyers from the democratic party who try to disallow military ballots?

Explain to me why Obama's people are talking about closing Gitmo, before they have talked with even a single serving officer with direct experience of the place and its operation?

It's not a "lie" that the leading democrats hate the military. It's your record for the past fifteen years.

Let's leave the politics be... (Below threshold)

Let's leave the politics behind. THis tripe is making me sick. I don't have the time for a real post today. But DJ, this being the first post for Veteran's Day is more than disappointing.

Let me use your logic DJ.</... (Below threshold)

Let me use your logic DJ.

Democratic lawyers try to disallow military votes = democrats hate America, So then when Republicans try to invalidate african-american votes, republicans are racist aren't they? Both statements are ludicrous.

On Veterans days I say Than... (Below threshold)

On Veterans days I say Thank you for the Men and Women who have fought, died and endured separation from family, friends and love ones. They Who must endure hardships in times of peace as well as war. Those who have kept freedom burning while they been disrespected and maligned at times, and at other who have been celebrated and forgotten. It is with humble reference from grateful nation I say again thank you.

There is proof that democra... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

There is proof that democrats have tried to deny military ballots known to be valid. There is no such evidence that republicans ever tried to suppress votes of african-americans.

Try another lie, JFO, that one just won't hunt.

Talk to some folks from Geo... (Below threshold)

Talk to some folks from Georgia about that DJ. Cripes man go back to bed and start your day over. You're unusually dyspeptic today.

Now Adriane, I tell you wha... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Now Adriane, I tell you what. If Obama finds it necessary to send troops into a conflict, I will indeed back him up and give him support for the mission.

But you and I both know that's something far different from the Obama we have seen so far, and supporting him in wartime is a very big difference from pretending he respects the men who may have to die at his command.

DJMaybe you should... (Below threshold)


Maybe you should go back to bed and get out the otherside, such that you celebrate the day for what it is, instead of using it as an opportunity to stir up a hornet's nest.

I still hold you in high esteem, but the sour grapes is beginning to rankle!

Happy Veterans Day to all o... (Below threshold)

Happy Veterans Day to all of our men and women in uniform who have served and are serving.

James -"Move... (Below threshold)

James -

"Move on...............it's beyond boring!"

Then go elsewhere, sir. I don't see anyone forcing you to stay here.

I'm not over how the Democratic party's done it's damndest to disqualify military absentee voters in the last three elections and won't be for a while - because it's by actions like THAT I judge the Democratic Party. It was wrong in 2000, it was wrong in 2004, it was wrong in 2008.

Your and JFO's protestations of support for the military ring hollow at best, and are self-aggrandizing at worst.

Kipling said it best with his poem "Tommy" -

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

You 'respect' us when we're needed and you mock us when you figure it's safe to do so. Change that, if you can.

LawsonFuck you. Yo... (Below threshold)


Fuck you. You know nothing about how I honor the military.

Spot on again, DJ.(... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

Spot on again, DJ.
(Just don't say ANYTHING bad about Obama!... Especially if he gets his own holiday).

That the Obama campaign worked diligently to supress the military vote is not conjecture, it is not "sour grapes", it is not throwing toys from a "pram" (what kind of man says "pram" anyway?)... it is fact.

God bless our military and our veterans (AND their votes).

Pardon my language above to... (Below threshold)

Pardon my language above to all but the asshat it was directed to.

It's my own fault for putti... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

It's my own fault for putting them out in the order I did, but let's please have this thread for the politics and one of the others for the vets.

LawsonThe issue is... (Below threshold)


The issue is not as to whether Obama tried to prevent the overseas military from voting (which I think is wrong!) but rather DJ using Veteran's Day to launch an attack on Obama.

Smarten up at the back of the class!

The veterans were disrespec... (Below threshold)

The veterans were disrespected the past November 4th when we flushed what little was left of our democracy down the toilet.

James and JFO -I'v... (Below threshold)

James and JFO -

I've watched you for the last few months, JFO - you have little to no respect for ANYONE on this board who doesn't agree with your limited viewpoint.

So - do I think you respect the troops? Is there anything in your postings here which would lead me to think you DO? You bash DJ because he dares to NOT THINK Obama will do the right thing.

And look at how fast and angrily you responded to my post - figure your best defense is a good offense there?

I think DJ really hit it -

"Too close to home, I'd say. Too much truth for you to let it go."

Your angry response is very telling.

And James - for some strange reason you seem to think sarcastic condesention will get you - what, points? We'll see what Obama does or doesn't do - but I'm quite certain you're going to do everything you can to spin things in a palatable manner.

And again - if DJ offends you, I don't see anyone forcing you to post here.

Thanks, DJ, for demonstrati... (Below threshold)

Thanks, DJ, for demonstrating once again what a very small man you are.

And if all you have is a pe... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

And if all you have is a personal insult, max, what are you saying about yourself?

Look having served under Bu... (Below threshold)

Look having served under Bush and Clinton. I have doubts that Obama will respect the military to any great degree. This is because he has surrounded himself with a lot of old Clinton rejects and to say they disliked and disrespected the US military and US intelligence forces is mild. The real awful thing is that I really do not think it was intentional it was just so deep rooted in some of their belief systems they just did not get it. We saw it with Hillary during the campaign she did not realize that saying that American forces would willing allow first lady into a hot zone was an anthemia to the men and women in uniform.

I maybe wrong but I did not hear Obama speak out with the General Betray us add.
We talked about our troops indiscriminately killing civilians as matter of course. The US has worked harder than any other force in multiple wars to limit civilian causalities.
We took heavy loses in Europe because of day time bombing to so we could use the Norton Bomb sites to in order to more accurately hit strategic targets. .

The Japanese looked on it as our weakness in WWII which is why they planed on putting weapons in their civilian hands if we invaded the mainland because it was thought that the US would allow the surrender because we would not stomach kill so many men women and children. We dropped those bombs to save American war fighters and Japanese civilians. .(How many know the fire bombing of Tokyo killed more Japanese than the two Atomic bombs)

All that said let see how he continues in office. His past actions and who he has surrounded himself with in the past and at current does not bode well.

I really pray he does not do another Clinton and put US troops under Union Command which lead to the Black Hawk down incident.

LawsonIf you paid ... (Below threshold)


If you paid any attention whatsoever to my comment (obviously you didn't) you'd see that I was not responding at all to DJ's comment about Obama. I was responding to the insult to me, ie. "democrats' loathe the military. Whether that makes any difference to you or not I suppose is irrelevant. But if you're going to direct an attack at me at least get it right.

I am a veteran, I have lots of friends who are democrats, more liberal than I, who are veterans. I come from a family of veterans. I repeat my comment to you - fuck you. Yeah, I'm angry because I get sick of people like you making arguments that those of us who don't agree with your particular political philosophy are somehow unamerican or troop haters. Again Lawson, fuck you.

Your first post on Veterans... (Below threshold)

Your first post on Veterans' Day was intended to denigrate Obama and not to say--simply--that you are grateful for what all veterans have done abroad and at home.

How the hell are people supposed to react to that, DJ? Why don't you write a personal "F*ck you you self-loathing useful idiot" to every member of the armed forces who voted for Obama? You shouldn't have broached the subject in the first place.

LawsonAgain, buck ... (Below threshold)


Again, buck youself up and pay attention.

I generally like DJ's posts as they provide food for thought. This time however, he has let his let himself go and in my opinion, has made a poor argument.

You are entitled to disagree all you like. As for using sarcasm, I use it sparingly, as I find irony, even the hostile variety, i.e sarcasm goes over most people's heads!

Now smarten up.

Wrong, hyper. My first pos... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Wrong, hyper. My first post was criticism. 'Denigration' would be if I called him something like "Chimpy McHitler", if I mocked his education, or if I lied about his actions and words.

Denigration is what you and your ilk do. I can understand that you see everything through a feces-coated perspective, but that does not make you correct.

"The veterans were disrespe... (Below threshold)

"The veterans were disrespected the past November 4th when we flushed what little was left of our democracy down the toile


In that case, then democracy was disrespected, not only the veterans.

If you have nothing of value to add in this debate, then best butt out as you dont want to make yourself look like a bigger fool than you already have.

Oh, snap! If I had a... (Below threshold)

Oh, snap! If I had a nickel for every time you dropped an "I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I" retort on this blog, DJ, I'd have rent covered for a couple of months.

When you say that democrats (sic) 'loathe' the military, you are denigrating the entire party; and as you aren't one to make the distinction between supporters of the Democratic party and the left in general, you are thereby implying that all people on the other side of the political spectrum from yourself detest soldiers. My friends fought in Afghanistan; my great-uncles fought and died in World War II and Korea; I honour and cherish what they did for my country and for the free world; and so in the words of the immortal veteran Kurt Vonnegut Jr., you can go take a flying f*ck at a rolling donut--take a flying f*ck at the moooooooon, why dontcha.

I don't think anybody cares what you think of them--be it President-elect Barack Obama, or a left-leaning commenter on your blog--so please, continue to spout off about how 52% of your country 'loathes' the military. You're only making yourself look stupid.

And good feelings to you to... (Below threshold)

And good feelings to you too, JFO - I'm a veteran also, 23 years in, active duty and AF Reserve. Veterans in the family, veterans as friends, yada yada yada...

It's interesting you seem to see a lack of respect to be the same as loathing - you're the one who brought THAT up. But I've seen how Democrats 'love' the military - during the Carter era we were on the short end of every budget, despite the inflation going on. During the Clinton era Air Force 1 NEVER landed at our base near a major city, though Bush 1 and Bush 2 never had a problem with landing there when warranted for events in the city. Of course, it was his choice, right? Certainly no disrespect was implied or intended by his preferring to land AF 1 at a CIVILIAN airport and bollix up the traffic patterns there, not to mention the problems with security there. And we won't talk about the weapons systems cancelled during the Carter and Clinton years, or the personnel drawdowns from the 'Peace Dividend' that supposedly has left the military undermanned to the point where Democrats occasionally raise the idea of reinstituting the draft. (Which has very little support from the military, oddly enough...)

I see trial balloons floated of a 25% cut in the military budget. Gee, why would I NOT think the military is eminently respected by the left, or will be greatly respected by an Obama administration?

You know, I don't give a damn about your personal political philosophy or the lack of it in this subject - I look at the actions of the left. There's no real respect there, despite your protestations of it, and there hasn't been for decades. Mouthing a few words on Veteran's Day doesn't make up for pissing on the military the other 364 days of the year.

And I think it's going to be coming down in buckets over the next 4 years.

Reading comprehension is a ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Reading comprehension is a real problem for you, hyper. You lie when you claim 52% is democrat. You lie when you tell yourself that all democrats think the putrid way that you do. You lie when you miss what I actually write, and instead react to little perversions your craven little mind presents in place of reality.

"Loathing the military" is a democrat tradition. I never said all democrats do it, but you know too freaking well that it's common on the Left. You welcomed that scum when you thought it would help win elections, so now you deal with the fact that that scum poisons your moral compass. You're not fooling anyone to pretend it's not true. We see it when your candidate skips visiting wounded combat troops because he cannot bring cameras in, we hear it when Murtha smears innocent Marines and not one leading democrat calls him on it, even when those same Marines have been exonerated after being put through hell on false accusations.

You do not even begin to comprehend what is being discussed here. You just do not like being called out, but your own record is clear and disgusting.

LawsonI'm done. Ku... (Below threshold)


I'm done. Kudos for being a vet. Peace. Out.

DJ, you are correct. Having... (Below threshold)

DJ, you are correct. Having served during the Vietnam conflict, I know first hand the left has for the military. Now a days they cloak it in "I support the troops but..." then the slam comes. The democratic leadership are all leftists now, so their hatred for the military is directly tied to democrats. That is just the way it goes in politics. If you have a problem with that, talk to your leaders and encourage them to support and fund the military. You won't though. Your words are just bluster.

And JFO, you want us to wait for Chicago Thug Obama to get into office before we criticize, well, you guys set those rules with GW in 2000. Now live with them. ww

Oh willie shut up would ya.... (Below threshold)

Oh willie shut up would ya. Your pre- recorded piece of drivel is the same old same old and it really is old. Once again if you had an ounce of honesty or you at least read comments you'd know that my comments here had nothing to do with Obama.

You can keep on saying your usual nonsense to your hearts content. The more you bitch about Obama before he does a single act as president the more you prove your ignorance. But hey, this is a country where folks are free to be as stupid as you.

JFOI give no crede... (Below threshold)


I give no credence to you, TJ or folks like wildwillie when you opine about Obama since you have no idea what he will do as president. What I read is just sour grapes pre-judgment

Well, it seems we are getting the same ole same ole from you my boy. You are a one trick pony. Always have been, always will be. Republican=Hate to you since your day one on this site. You attempted to be reasonable a few months back but that lasted two days. Just be your normal obnoxious self. ww

The main lefty objection to... (Below threshold)
Son Of The Godfather:

The main lefty objection to this article seems to be:

"How DARE you point out that Obama tried to suppress the military vote!!!... And on Veteran's Day!!!"

Does that make sense to anyone?

You conflate Code Pinkos an... (Below threshold)

You conflate Code Pinkos and their ilk with the rest of the left, DJ. You conflate advocating for a reduction in defense spending as somehow lacking respect for the individuals who wear the uniforms. I can say that I respect and admire every person who volunteers to defend their country while thinking that a lot less money should be given to defense contractors and that less wars should be fought for questionable reasons. You can support the troops while saying "Boy, that is one senseless mission they've been sent on," and if you disagree with that then you have embraced a false dichotomy spoon-fed to the 24 percenters by the brave souls of talk radio.

And "the left"--the biggest part of an amoprhous majority who just elected Barack Obama to be your President--opposed the war in Iraq not because they're in league with The Bad Guys and don't support the troops, but because it was a waste of money and human life. You "supported" the troops by pimping a stupid Middle East policy that has left thousands of them dead. The same thing happened with Vietnam. Most people who opposed that war were not spitting on soldiers or otherwise disrespecting them but because some assholes did, you are comfortable branding "the right" as those who support the troops, and "the left" as those who loathe them.

And thus are you revealed to be an unserious, shallow man who prioritizes partisan spin ahead of a dignified show of respect for veterans in his blogging activity on Veterans' Day.

In the run-up to the election it was easy to forget what a mean-spirited hack you are as you did a decent job of trying to come across as objective while desperately hunting for data that supported the possibility of John McCain becoming President. But now it's back to the ol' spin 'n' vitriol. Disappointing.

Nothing but more lies and s... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Nothing but more lies and sneers again from hyper.

'disappointing', yet predictable.

Perhaps he will pardon us f... (Below threshold)
Steve Schippert:

Perhaps he will pardon us for "bombing villages and killing civilians"?

Just sayin'.

it sounds like DJ is confus... (Below threshold)

it sounds like DJ is confusing "support for the military" with "support for the fraudulent iraq war"

two very different things, DJ

Happy Veterans Day, Veteran... (Below threshold)

Happy Veterans Day, Veterans! Class of 1969-73 here, spending the day with my son, SGT FastLaneFlash, who is home on a 4-day pass. The military knows they are about to take a hit from the Obama administration, and they see it as an opportunity to get rid of goldbrickers, sad sacks, and lard asses. Irony is the most effected will be blacks who fill non-combat positions, not those non-black men who carry the guns. There wasn't a single black in my son's infantry company when they last deployed to Iraq. My fear is that Obama will waste American lives in Afghanistan and Africa pursuing his global image and United Nations agendas, while laying down for the likes of Putin, Castro, Chavez, et. al. Obama has not given veterans any reason to expect respect from him, from his "flag-pin patriotism" to his not having time to visit wounded soldiers unless they agree to be a campaign photo-op.

We, Veterans, swore an allegiance to protect and defend The Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. It's The Document, stupid, not the president, that the military serves. My best instincts are that Obama is an enemy of America's founding document, which he has stated is "flawed". I believe him to be communist through and through. Pray the checks and balances work. Carry on.

Just tellin' the truth, DJ,... (Below threshold)

Just tellin' the truth, DJ, dontchaknow. If you don't like it maybe you should close commenting or just disemvowell me? Crybaby.

Looks like the DJ and the W... (Below threshold)

Looks like the DJ and the WizWankers want to keep diving into the Vegas buffet of Stupid;

Obama camp wants every military vote counted

What's said and what's done... (Below threshold)

What's said and what's done in the political arena are not often the same, Gloat.

Again I say to the lefties.... (Below threshold)

Again I say to the lefties. You embrace the troops when it is to your political advantage. If you do not being aligned with the leftests now in charge, change the leadership. Pelosi and Reid are as left and hateful as they come. You neolibs should take a stand if you really want our perception of you to change. Hang with dogs, you get fleas. ww

Why don't you offer some pr... (Below threshold)

Why don't you offer some proof that the Obama campaign tried to "keep overseas military ballots from being counted this election"? Here's some! Oh wait, that's proof of the opposite, isn't it? Lying jackass.

I'll second Bob Geiger here: Shove it, DJ.

Republicans. Bad for the military, bad for America. Into the wilderness with you.

There's something both Chri... (Below threshold)

There's something both Christopher Hitchens (Sarah Palin detractor) and David Horowitz (higher education watchdog) know. Mr. Hitchens and Mr. Horowitz have a common frame of reference. What do Hitchens and Horowitz know that you don't? What has Mr. Horowitz known since 2003, and Mr. Hitchens known since 2007? And, why should you know what these two gentlemen know? Because they know the game is afoot, set into motion over a decade before Ms. Palin was selected as a running mate. A candidate in 2012 must be familiar with what her opponent already knows. Veterans Day, we honor military veterans. But whether Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coastguard, whether at forts, bases, or other instillations, virtually all-military personnel get stationed at various locales. These facilities may vary greatly depending upon branch of service and geographic location; this is the story of one such venue after the Democrats got hold of it: http://theseedsof9-11.com

twolaneflash, that's cool, ... (Below threshold)

twolaneflash, that's cool, generalize that African-Americans who wear the uniform do not carry guns.

That's cool, refer to the mission in Afghanistan--the war that is directly related to the terrorist attacks of 9/11--as part of a "United Nations agenda". (What, America should only fight wars that the United Nations opposes?)

That's cool, ignore the fact that Obama will be your son's Commander in Chief--a rank that the Constitution has never and will never hold.

You remind me of a certain fat-assed prescription heroin addict who smears veterans who strongly disagree with his idiotic perspective; and who believes that anybody who opposed the incoherent and unjustified invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq is somehow less patriotic than you--possibly even a communist! Yeah, go with your "instincts" on that one, genius.

How's it feel being in a politically impotent minority, friendo?

Just read that link, mantis... (Below threshold)

Just read that link, mantis. That's pretty incontrovertible evidence right there regarding the right-wing party's disregard for the welfare of currently deployed troops. Post-secondary education is a "perverse incentive" to leave the Armed Forces after a mere three years of service? F*ck the heck?!

But hey, everybody in Code Pink voted for Obama so it cancels out the GOP's sinister disregard for the well-being of the troops, right?

And when was the last time anybody saw Sean Penn wearing a flag pin?

ww - perhaps you can someho... (Below threshold)

ww - perhaps you can somehow explain how reid and pelosi are "hateful"?

i can always use a good laugh


Hyper, what does your count... (Below threshold)

Hyper, what does your country offer to the world, geopolitical? Do countries in need say, "I hope canada helps us, if not, we will have to settle for the US." I don't think so. Your country has talented entertainers and all of the USofA's cowards and draft dodgers. So, please spare me the bravado.

Pea, how can I demonstrate hate to someone who lives it?

Again, it is always, always, the left side of the political spectrum that puts down our brave troops. The left side of the political spectrum is now in power in the democratic party. If you neolibs do not like that, change it. It is your party isn't it? Of course you won't change it because you embrace it. ww

ww - "it is always, always,... (Below threshold)

ww - "it is always, always, the left side of the political spectrum that puts down our brave troops"?

so you resort to lies eh. yep, im calling you a liar

Hyper... (Below threshold)


You remind me of a certain fat-assed prescription heroin addict who smears veterans who strongly disagree with his idiotic perspective; and who believes that anybody who opposed the incoherent and unjustified invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq is somehow less patriotic than you--possibly even a communist! Yeah, go with your "instincts" on that one, genius.

The link you provide has been widely discussed on many blogs. Your conclusion about what Limbaugh said is wrong and has been thoroughly discredited. I listened to the actual broadcast live, read the transcript and concluded that what you and many others claim Limbaugh said is simply not true, but rather out of context by the necessarily few sentences to change the meaning.

Hyper, what evidence do you have that Limbaugh was a heroin addict? Or perhaps you should differentiate prescription heroin addict from heroin addict. Do tell. The local prosecutors records are easily discoverable as well as the reports to his probation officer.

But this is a gem:

who believes that anybody who opposed the incoherent and unjustified invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq is somehow less patriotic than you

That's ludicrous. That's demagoguery. It's borderline cant.

well hugh its not really po... (Below threshold)

well hugh its not really possible to deny that the left has been roundly called troop-hating and unpatriotic for not supporting bu$hs iraq war. for the people making those idiotic accusations against the left, it doesnt pay to argue intelligently. its best for them to keep it at the schoolyard level... or else be cornered instantly with common logic

the vast majority of left-leaning people dont even qualify as pacifist, so the entire framing of that debate is ludicrous

peabodywell ... (Below threshold)


well hugh its not really possible to deny that the left has been roundly called troop-hating and unpatriotic for not supporting bu$hs iraq war. for the people making those idiotic accusations against the left, it doesnt pay to argue intelligently. its best for them to keep it at the schoolyard level... or else be cornered instantly with common logic

That comment isn't the hallmark of intelligent argument. Both sides to this war have been caricatured. For example, this term: bu$hs iraq war is absurd. Explain the $ sign in the possessive sense.

And remember that it always pays to argue intelligently. Blaming your own vacuous remarks on the responses of your opponent has never worked in debate or politics.

ahh now, now, hugh. picking... (Below threshold)

ahh now, now, hugh. picking on the dollar sign isnt going to win you any debates haha


what troubles me is that the neocon fringe seems dependant on the caricatures to even hold a conversation. i call it "fantasy-based mockery" .. for example to say that "libbie libs love saddam hussein" or "obama is a rabid communist" or today we have the "lefties disrespect the troops" drivel, and then they hang their entire argument upon such gems. pitiful really

what troubles me is t... (Below threshold)

what troubles me is that the neocon fringe seems dependant on the caricatures to even hold a conversation. i call it "fantasy-based mockery" .. for example to say that "libbie libs love saddam hussein" or "obama is a rabid communist" or today we have the "lefties disrespect the troops" drivel, and then they hang their entire argument upon such gems. pitiful really

Then complain to them. I never said those things.

However, you never expained this:

picking on the dollar sign isnt going to win you any debates

Explain it.

hugh, i had responded becau... (Below threshold)

hugh, i had responded because, if i have this right, you called it ludicrous for hyperbolist to say limbaugh "believes that anybody who opposed the incoherent and unjustified invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq is somehow less patriotic than you"... im NOT saying you yourself utter such nonsense, but maybe youre listening to a different limbaugh?

and "picking on the dollar sign" means the one in bu$h... i'll be leaving it there, grammatically correct or not =]

Willie, I cringe when I see... (Below threshold)

Willie, I cringe when I see you use words like "geopolitical". Anyway, I wore a poppy today to symbolize the sacrifice Canadian soldiers--some of them relatives of mine--made in all the conflicts of the 20th century. We entered both World Wars years before the United States, and suffered great casualties while contributing significantly to Allied victories in both wars. And we fought in Iraq in the first Gulf War. And we still fight in Afghanistan. I'm tired of telling you this shit over and over again because you appear to have the memory/attention span of a meth addict.

Hugh: did twolaneflash's comment really deserve a more thoughtful reply than I gave it? "You're a f*cking idiot" would have sufficed. I was nice to the guy. Limbaugh does make arguments like that, and he was addicted to Oxycontin to the tune of dozens of pills per day (which I normally wouldn't hold against somebody, except he railed for ten years against drug addicts like they're criminals so fair is fair). Oxycontin is prescription heroin.

I notice that you didn't speak to me pointing out the absurd racism of twolane's remarks about black soldiers--on Veterans' Day--and how they are too cowardly or otherwise unable to bear arms and (I'm guessing...) simply clean latrines or serve food or whatever he implied. Sure, I demagogued a little, but you should be far more pissed off by that shithead's comments than my own. You're a decent guy, you don't have to stick up for turds like that.

Willie--that should say "al... (Below threshold)

Willie--that should say "all the conflicts of the 20th century that we participated in". We had the common sense not to send troops to Vietnam.

peabody is right, your incessant bleating about the "hatred of the left" is so vacuous as to border on the retarded. Did you read mantis' link? It's not Democratic Senators who voted against increased tuition funding for veterans, it was Republicans. Clinton and Obama voted for the increase, and McCain didn't show up for the vote. Read the link. Sure, Code Pink might be part of the "left", but they aren't elected Senators.

You may trot out John Murtha, to which I would say, good for you!, perhaps you realize that assholes who disrespect the armed forces exist on both sides of the aisle. Have a cookie!

hyperbolist - im not sure i... (Below threshold)

hyperbolist - im not sure i'll rouse a good debate from a right-winger here right now, so permit me to take issue with something you said: that murtha qualifies as disrespectful of military. i remember him being in the relatively good graces of the neocons until he pretty suddenly reversed his until then resolute support for the iraq war. instantly of course he was denigrated by every neocon talking head who could get near a microphone

since then ive only heard that he seemed to presume some guilt of soldiers in a very shameful civilian mass murder incident, inciting more neocon attack machinery to action

so am i missing something there?

ww - perhaps you c... (Below threshold)
ww - perhaps you can somehow explain how reid and pelosi are "hateful"?

i can always use a good laugh


Reid and Pelosi aren't hateful, just brainwashed puppets. You want to piddle around and ask someone to explain "hateful" to you? So much for sophistication. That's almost like pondering Jason's relationship with a chainsaw...*wink wink, nudge nudge...

One thing remains. In spite of all the partisan crossfire, our U.S. Constitution will not be destroyed by the government's distractions. We are meant to win. Even if they manage to pull off that generated crisis in western europe within the next six months, we will win.

another waste of screen spa... (Below threshold)

another waste of screen space from lamedusa


another waste of s... (Below threshold)
another waste of screen space from lamedusa


I thought you were going to ignore me?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."


I have not come to the conc... (Below threshold)

I have not come to the conclusion the left hates the military because Iraq. I have seen it many, many times since the middle sixties.

You also don't call it respect and support of their sacrifice by throwing money at them. You cheapen them when you attempt to do a political showy thing such as that. Most troops what respect and support but mainly, they want to WIN. That is three things the hateful left won't give them.

Also, for the learning impaired: (Hyper, Pea) a president cannot enter into a war or conflict without the express go ahead of congress. Which was given by both sides of the aisle.

Now that the demo's have been the leaders in congress for two years now, and can halt the war right now, but yet they don't. So, this is now Pelosi's and Reid's war, at least by your marginal thinking.

Hyper, I guess if I want a nice vacation with good views, your country may be worth that. ww

Willie, Montreal and Vancou... (Below threshold)

Willie, Montreal and Vancouver are two of the ten best cities in the world in which to raise a family. Toronto is in the top 20. If I recall correctly, the only American cities in the top 20 are Seattle and San Francisco. It's a great place to live, and a nice place to visit. Come check it out sometime, do some hunting or fishing if you're into that sort of thing, or get on a motorcycle and drive from Cape Breton to Vancouver Island.

peabody, Murtha assumed that some Marines were guilty of having murdered civilians before all of the information (not to mention the verdict) was in. I'd be very surprised if no civilians were killed in cold blood during this conflict, but that's a sad corollary of war. That Murtha spoke to a specific incident as though he were privy to all of the facts shows that he was interested in playing politics and not actually seeking justice for the murdered Iraqis.

And, apart from that, it's bad politics to call your constituents racists--even if some of them are.






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