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"The Public Option Is Not Your Enemy " - Oh Really?

Naked Emperor News put together great video that has been making the rounds this weekend, that proves the Obama Administration is lying outright when they promise "nothing will change" for those with private insurance, if ObamaCare is signed into law. What Obama and his policy architects really want is the eventual elimination of private health insurance and the establishment of a nationalized, single payer health care system controlled by the Federal government. Watch it and learn:

You should also take a few minutes and watch this next video, put together by the VerumSerum bloggers, which includes the Jan Schakowsky clip as well as video of Jacob Hacker, architecht of the Obama Administration's government-run Public Option health plan. Hacker has long been a supporter of single-payer socialized medicine and admits that his ultimate policy goal is the piecemeal destruction of the private health insurance industry - "We're going to get there, over time, slowly, and we'll move away from reliance on employment-based health insurance, as we should. But we'll do it in a way that we're not going to frighten people into thinking they're going to lose their private insurance."

Finally, this article about the views of Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, and Dr. David Blumenthal, both senior Obama health care advisers, should frighten anyone who believes that everyone deserves the best quality health care even if they are mentally or physically disabled, elderly, or chronically ill:

Savings, [Dr. Emanuel] writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).

Yes, that's what patients want their doctors to do. But Emanuel wants doctors to look beyond the needs of their patients and consider social justice, such as whether the money could be better spent on somebody else.

Many doctors are horrified by this notion; they'll tell you that a doctor's job is to achieve social justice one patient at a time.

Emanuel, however, believes that "communitarianism" should guide decisions on who gets care. He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).

Translation: Don't give much care to a grandmother with Parkinson's or a child with cerebral palsy.

He explicitly defends discrimination against older patients: "Unlike allocation by sex or race, allocation by age is not invidious discrimination; every person lives through different life stages rather than being a single age. Even if 25-year-olds receive priority over 65-year-olds, everyone who is 65 years now was previously 25 years"

With people like this in charge of rationing our health care, the "public option" will soon become public enemy number one. This doesn't have to be our future, but in order to stop it we must have the courage to stand up against government tyranny and keep health care in the private sector, where individuals or their families -- not government bureaucrats -- are free to make their own health care choices.


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Comments (62)

S.S.2. Fleece the babyboom... (Below threshold)

S.S.2. Fleece the babyboomers to pay off Your socialist European puppetmasters.

Dr. Emmanuel is a ghoul.</p... (Below threshold)

Dr. Emmanuel is a ghoul.

Logan's Run here we come.</... (Below threshold)

Logan's Run here we come.

It really is frightening ho... (Below threshold)

It really is frightening how much news is being withheld today, like that second clip. News used to come to you, but now you have to go find it. And as people find out how much they've been lied to, by both commission and omission, they are getting righteously pissed, as evidenced by some of those town halls hosted by our congressbastards.

When governnment fears the people, there is freedom. When people fear the fovernment, there is tyranny.

This administration is all-in on socializing our health. Which in turn socializes our wealth. Scary 'fork in the road' times.

"Doctors take the Hippoc... (Below threshold)

"Doctors take the Hippocratic oath too seriously"

Translation: Kill all the old folks and cripples and fund My yacht in the Carribean.

You are a piece of shit Emanuel.

It's nonsensical to believe... (Below threshold)

It's nonsensical to believe that private insurance will exist for very long after this government option is put into place. A private business cannot compete with a government entity which has unlimited funds and is backed by the power of government. The Democrats know this--that's why this legislation is so much more convoluted that it should be to just institute a health care plan for poor or uninsurable people. They want to have the mechanism in place to completely regulate all health care.

Logan's Run: Not just a mov... (Below threshold)

Logan's Run: Not just a movie, but a documentary on Single Payer.

Can't wait for the televised euthanasia of folks just because they're too old.

"Nobody is talking about so... (Below threshold)

"Nobody is talking about some government takeover of health care."
Ha. Of course they are not calling it that because if they did their plans would be more difficult to implement. So, what Obama is saying is within ten years or sooner, we will have transitioned into that system whether Americans like it or not. Will Obama, inc. and his stooges be subjected to this single-payer system? Of course not. But if the bill is out there, you can be sure it will be voted on and approved without any media fanfare. Employers and private citizens alike will be presented with this option as their only "choice".

Oyster: "Dr. Emmanuel is... (Below threshold)

Oyster: "Dr. Emmanuel is a ghoul."

you are waaaay more charitable than I am.

"medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens"

In the movie 'Schindler's List' there is a scene where the Jews run in a circle, naked, while observed by "Doctors" (like "Dr." Emmanuel). The purpose is to see who is healthy enough to work...and who should not even be allowed to live.

Wow. The uncovering of thi... (Below threshold)

Wow. The uncovering of this video will create 10 times more chaos at those townhall events the dimbulbs in Congress keep holding to explain this bill that they haven't seen.

I'll be curious to see if the One can explain this away.

Just another nail in the Ob... (Below threshold)

Just another nail in the Obamacare coffin.

914_62: "You are a piece of... (Below threshold)

914_62: "You are a piece of shit Emanuel."

I started to ask which one....but the comment works just as well for both.

This almost seems to tie to... (Below threshold)

This almost seems to tie together most looney left fantasies.

Overpopulation of the planet? Abortion and medical care "reserved for the non-disabled" and young will take care of that.

Environmental damage? Mitigated if the population is reduced.

Racism? Attacked on another front via the "social justice" aspect of medical apportionment.

Freedom? See ya. Any and all activities deemed to cause health costs to increase outlawed or taxed to death. (win/win for this group).

Also solves the Social Security funding crisis on the horizon. Less people left to collect anything.

You know, It's amazing to me that some people actually think this way (Emanuel and Blumenthal). What's bothers me more is that Obama, or anyone would want them as advisors. What bothers me the most is the incredible blatant lying by Obama himself.

Watch yourselves, white tra... (Below threshold)

Watch yourselves, white trash! They may decide that poorly educated trailer trash are more worthless than old people, and you dirtbags will be the first to go!

That doctor needs to have h... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

That doctor needs to have his credentials removed by the AMA or whoever can do that. Failing that, he needs to be subject of some vigilante justice. If they were to tell my 90 year old mother it was not worth the money to save her live, I would make that doctor an offer he could not refuse. When you play games with life and death, be ready to play.

I was thinking of Rahm as w... (Below threshold)

I was thinking of Rahm as well Justrand..Your right. It works for both.

#14 semens

"They may decide that poorly educated trailer trash are "more worthless" than old people and You dirtbags will be the first to go!"

Limpwristed liberals are capable of taking out nothing in this Country, let alone the backbone. Just try it and see what happens stooge.

Only people that will end u... (Below threshold)

Only people that will end up with adequate and timely care will be the 'ruling elite'. Funny how that all works out.

Try it? It's already done,... (Below threshold)

Try it? It's already done, moron. We got ourselves a Kenyan in the White House, a real live Mohammaden, and a socialist to boot! And what's a "limp wrist" Trailer trash stooge like you doing about it? Calling me mean names on a message board. That'll learn me! I hope when Obama comes for your family, I get to eat your kids. If they're as fat and dumb as you, I'm sure they'll be tasty!

"We got ourselves a K... (Below threshold)

"We got ourselves a Kenyan in the White House, a real live Muslim and a socialist to boot! And whats a "limp wrist" Trailer trash like You doing about it?""

Watching Him fail miserably like all liberals do and enjoying the free falling dictators numbers knowing 2010 & 12 are very near.

And seeins as how you have ... (Below threshold)

And seeins as how you have no legitimate candidate to run for President in 12, except the skank form Wasilla, what are you going to do from 12 to 16? Watch him, and run your big, stupid GED mouth for four more years

"And seeins how yous has... (Below threshold)

"And seeins how yous has no legitimate candidate to run for President in 12, except the skank from Wasilla,"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

How did Youse fill outs the ballot in 08s? Did Eggcorn help you out?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

seamus just wants attention... (Below threshold)

seamus just wants attention. Don't feed the troll.

I know this Eric...I was ju... (Below threshold)

I know this Eric...I was just humoring Myself a bit. I can only stand so much nonsensical gibberish though so...Adios.

Anyone to the right of Mao ... (Below threshold)

Anyone to the right of Mao sa Tung would be a slam dunk against your teleprompted fool.

And I did not have any fellow dropouts as I graduated liberal refuse!!

what percentage of alcoholi... (Below threshold)

what percentage of alcoholics or drug addicts recover and wind up leading productive lives? while some people do get completely turned around and go on to lead exemplary lives, most do not. will the government no longer provide treatment? if they do, they're wasting money on a less than 50/50 bet, if they don't how will anyone ever get turned around?

maybe dems don't worry about 80 year old grandpas shooting them (although there was that incident at the holocaust museum) but most people hate seeing a loved one suffer even more than they hate their own suffering.
start withholding treatment from people statistically not worth it, and you may find out that politicians' needs for medical attention has gone up quite a bit.

That's a great point golly.... (Below threshold)

That's a great point golly. The problem is, that very situation happens now. So why are you ok with private health care beaucrats making that decision, but uncomfortable with governemt health care beauracrats making it?

Gollymeds, I suggest you wi... (Below threshold)
Zelsdorf Ragshaft III:

Gollymeds, I suggest you will see a lot more incidents of violents purpetrated by senior citizens who get condemned to death or painful lives by unwilling doctors and a system that refuses to treat them as they have become unworthy. If that is how this society wants to treat those who have provided so well. I say it is time to change the government. I am just saying I have a God given right to defend my life until the end of it, and I will do so to the best of my ability which is considerable as long as I believe the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution covers me.

What slimy rock did seamus ... (Below threshold)

What slimy rock did seamus ooze out from under?

The rock of Libraltar thats... (Below threshold)

The rock of Libraltar thats which one.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III, the ... (Below threshold)

Zelsdorf Ragshaft III, the first time someone in my family get denied medical care I will have my two "assistants" Mr. Smith and Mr. Weston negotiate for me. And I suspect there will LOTS of such "negotiations".

Seamus:Do you alwa... (Below threshold)
ryan a:


Do you always talk to people like this, or is this just your internet persona?

Granted, you might have a differing opinion/position from many around here (as do I), but what's the point of hauling off and acting like a blatant a**hole? Seems pretty pointless to me.

"Simple, shite for brains. ... (Below threshold)
SER Author Profile Page:

"Simple, shite for brains. I voted straight Democrat. That's why I'm a winner, and you're a loser."

This is an example of how Dems have "an intelligent, rational argument"

Who could help but be stunned by their logic.

Ironic that a son of an Irg... (Below threshold)

Ironic that a son of an Irgun activist would grow up to be Dr. Mengele's kindred spirit.

So why are you ok with p... (Below threshold)

So why are you ok with private health care beaucrats making that decision, but uncomfortable with governemt health care beauracrats making it?

I'm not sure what either beaucrats or beauracrats are, but, let me give this a whirl, anyway. Private health care insurance is founded on a contract. Both sides go into the relationship knowing what the standards are for determining when healthcare is and is not covered. If the patient does not like how the insurance carrier offers to treat, let's say, dyslexia, for example, the patient can chose to either take a contract claim to court, or change insurers, or go outside of the insurance and buy care on his or her own.

When the proposed government option is in place, eventually, ALL healthcare will be strictly regulated. That's what single payer means, after all--only the government can buy healthcare. That's what these clips reveal--that the real goal is single payer. Even if that were not the goal, that would be the outcome, since private insurance will not be able to compete with the government option. By definition, when something can only be bought by the government, it is strictly regulated.

Since the government will be the only buyer under single payer, there won't be any other option--no courts, no alternate government plan down the street. And, since the government won't be able to afford the high quality of health care we now enjoy, healthcare will be rationed, just like it is in Canada and in England, where they now limit use of cortisone, and advise citizens to get acupuncture instead to treat their problems. Just like in Canada, we'll be having lotteries to determine who gets to see a doctor. The salaries of healthcare providers will also be limited, causing the highest quality doctors to leave the profession. There will be no more innovation, since no one will want to make a risky investment in new medicine or technology, only to find out that the government refuses to buy it. And, from there, it gets worse.

That's why I'm uncomfortable with the government dictating healthcare.

Seamus, your mom's calling.... (Below threshold)

Seamus, your mom's calling. The beefaroni's ready.

#35 ryan -"Granted... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

#35 ryan -

"Granted, you might have a differing opinion/position from many around here (as do I), but what's the point of hauling off and acting like a blatant a**hole? Seems pretty pointless to me."

Just an honest question here, Ryan. What evidence or knowledge of Seamus do you have that makes you think this is just an act?

Speaking as someone who *li... (Below threshold)
Sarah Lawson:

Speaking as someone who *likes* my current situation (I have *never* had a health problem other than cavities, and I have blue cross -- try that with a socialist health care plan) I don't want government taking over and reducing costs. Where would the quality go? To Mexico.

#39:Bravo! I wish I... (Below threshold)

Bravo! I wish I could write as well as you.

Once ALL money flows from the government plan, then there are no other choices. If the commissioners deem you unworthy for care there will be no other recourse. Pay in cash? Won't be allowed since you would be utilizing medical resources that "should be directed" by the governing body. This problem is not a slippery slope. It is a cliff.

What a little people we have become if we sacrifice liberty for cheaper blue pills.

Ryan -We've disagr... (Below threshold)

Ryan -

We've disagreed in the past, but you've always been reasonably respectful of the opinions of the people here - and you listen. You might not agree - but you're willing to at least enertain the notion that some other point of view is as valid as yours.

Folks like Seamus? They're here because it's fun to be an asshole. They enjoy it. They're not here to discuss - they're just here to while away some time acting in ways that would likely get them punched out face-to-face.

Anyway, the morons here disagree, that renders them subhuman. You don't respect subhuman morons, much less have substantive discussions with them on issues like health care. And if they weren't morons, they'd be able to see just how a completely nebulous, detail-sparse, hideously expensive program would be much better for them than the current mishmash of insurance they have now.

And, thirty years from now if this godawful idea gets passed, Seamus will look at the letter denying him medical coverage on something easily taken care of at the present time - and he'll wonder "Just how in the hell did we get saddled with this miserable mess of a single-payer system?" Or perhaps he or a loved one will come down with cancer - only to find that the only 'cure' available from the government will ease the pain, but do nothing else. Searching on the internet, he finds that several research protocols were showing promising findings for this particular cancer... but it was deemed too expensive for too few cases and the research grants evaporated.

The government had other needs for the money.

The law of unexpected consequences always applies, Ryan - and the more money involved the bigger the bite when it hits.

Applying Dr. Emanuel's syst... (Below threshold)

Applying Dr. Emanuel's system to lifeboat resources on the Titanic would certainly have reduced the cries of "women and children first!" Lifeboats would only be for twenty-something males who could row.

seamus Thanks for ... (Below threshold)
retired military:


Thanks for proving what everyone says about liberals is correct. I mean you come here and rant and say republicans do this and do that and arent even smart enough to realize you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing.

Typical liberal.

Actually, Dr. Emanuel's sys... (Below threshold)

Actually, Dr. Emanuel's system might be a little Strangeloveian. You know, a bunch of 'elite' gummint bureaucrats with their own harems of 10 or so hotties. Any alpha male (i.e. one that can think) would be off to re-education camps, and anyone too old or infirm would be off to the Soylent Green plant.

Thank goodness brilliant thinkers like seamus crawled out of their basements to vote!

Every employer I have worke... (Below threshold)

Every employer I have worked for since college has been self-insured. That means that there was some company (blue X blue plate, if you wish) that processes the payments for a fee, but the actual payment for the services came directly from my employer. I have a suspicion that most folks who work for large or even medium sized companies are in similar situations.

I am not a big fan of corporate taxes. They are ways of taxing people without saying we are taxing people. Basically we pretend that the companies pay the tax, but in reality the cost is passed along to the company's customers and partly to the shareholders. Implementing a government run program will in effect move money that is being paid by "big evil companies" directly to the taxpayer. Why do the same people (so called progressives) who like corporate taxes wish to move insurance costs from the companies to taxpayers?

RicardoVerde: "Applying Dr.... (Below threshold)

RicardoVerde: "Applying Dr. Emanuel's system... Lifeboats would only be for twenty-something males who could row."

Best comment in a long while! Perfect!!! Terrifying...but perfect!

"Since the government wi... (Below threshold)

"Since the government will be the only buyer under single payer, there won't be any other option--no courts,..."

Oh there would be courts alright, the government can get sued, (granted not as often, seeing as how few have unlimited funding like the government) but guess where they'd get the money to pay for their defense and/or to pay up if they lose? And even if a suit doesn't go to court and they settle outside, guess who's paying for that?

<a href="http://en.wikipedi... (Below threshold)


From the site (it's not a hot link): The Congressional Budget Office has found that "about half of all growth in health care spending in the past several decades was associated with changes in medical care made possible by advances in technology."

In 2006, the United States accounted for three quarters of the world's biotechnology revenues and 82% of world R&D spending in biotechnology.

Lots of interesting information, even if it is a wiki. Single payer fans should be careful of what they wish for: baby/bath water issues.

"They may decide that poorl... (Below threshold)

"They may decide that poorly educated trailer trash are more worthless than old people,"

Some people just don't get it that single-payer is not selective, and those bombastic insults may be their famous last words.

"We got ourselves a Kenyan in the White House, a real live Mohammaden, and a socialist to boot!"

What you've got is a conditioned drone, who is half-white and programmed to speak only when spoken to. Wait 'til his cronies turn on him when he's no longer useful. Lucky you, and your elitist ilk. You think you have a ticket to that underground shelter? Not a chance. You're way too "crass" for their "class".

What a joke this administra... (Below threshold)

What a joke this administration is. They are already killing babies on demand, and before we know it, they are going to be killing seniors. Watch out middle age - you are next, unless you have a lot of money to contribute to their campaign. When will the madness stop? It has only been 8 months, and it already feels like BHO and his minions have been around for years. What is the next 3 years going to bring? Hopefully he will be impeached for treason (which he should be) before the GOP makes a storming comeback. This idiot has to be stopped before he does irrepairable damage to our country. He is on the verge, so everyone, be careful what you say or do; he will have you "taken care of" and don't think it can't happen.

seamus is a loser so don't ... (Below threshold)

seamus is a loser so don't waste your time with IT. As for that skank from wasilla, she has more class in her right ear than you and your ass kissing buddies have in your whole body. I think a lot of you losers have a crush on her and are too wussed to admit it so you trash talk her. What have you got going for you? More porno flicks and cheetos?
Get a life and leave ours alone you pervert!!

Oyster,I think we'... (Below threshold)


I think we'll see a lot of "Ford Pinto"-type decisions by the government if we end up with single-payer government health care.

If you don't recall, Ford Motor Co. was aware that their Pinto compact car could catch fire if hit in a rear-end collision, but a corporate cost/benefit analysis showed that it would be cheaper to pay death and injury claims resulting from automobile fires, rather than redesign the car's gas tank.

Since the government will be rationing health care under a single-payer system, they will be forced to approve treatment based on cost-benefit analysis of whether or not treating a patient is "worth it." Undoubtedly there will be cases where it will be cheaper to let the patient die and pay wrongful death claims. (The government also knows that only a few families will have both the money and stamina to fight years-long protracted court battles, and that most families will settle out of court for a dollar amount determined to be less than the cost of expensive end-of-life treatment.)

It's always interesting tha... (Below threshold)

It's always interesting that the left talks about our health care 'emergency'. Inventing a crisis worked so well for Cap and Trade and TARP, so why not health care?

Current events: H1N1 - the next 'crisis' - is already a crisis in other countries, and the top ten in epidemic ARE ALL DEPENDANT ON SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. Why? Because delays cause the spread of disease.

I understand and share the concerns about ancillary issues like the auditing of books of companies that don't opt to pay for the public option, and euthanasia counseling for anybody over 65, but consider the loss of life of massive numbers of people to outbreaks that could have been prevented. Delays in care (inherent in socialized medicine) increase the risk of spreading disease, worsening conditions, increased suffering, etc. One of the reasons Americans have a better system is the access.

The argument that a single payer system will increase access to health care is laughable on the face of it. Look around.

It all boils down to the fact that liberals do not get the connection between supply and demand. It fuels their stupid economic policy and that's bad enough, but now they want to apply it to medical care.

BTW, try to find a good doctor in a single pay system, nevermind, if you don't like your sorry doctor, you can't get a new one anyway.

Michael:"Undoubtedly... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

"Undoubtedly there will be cases where it will be cheaper to let the patient die and pay wrongful death claims."

Being denied payment by an insurance company is one thing. You can sue or pay out of pocket or go in hock or sell your house or have a fundraiser etc...to get treatment. When a gov't bureaucrat, who works for the People, says 'no', it will get a different reaction from people.

If the gov't healthcare evolves as it surely will, then when the gov't commisar says 'no', then there will be no treatment delivered.

At some point, the commisars who say 'no' will be visited by the condemned or their heirs. It will not be pretty. America is not Europe, yet.

He's so calm, so cool, so c... (Below threshold)

He's so calm, so cool, so cerebral, so "hip".
Until now. He and his policies are being
challenged.....by the PEOPLE. If he wants to
pull his agenda out of the fire, he'll
have to show us a man of "gravitas" and not
just the "flavor of the month". Most of
the media are stuck on "chocolate".

goodnight beautiful people.... (Below threshold)

goodnight beautiful people...

RE; 15 and 30I bel... (Below threshold)

RE; 15 and 30

I believe in the past that individuals have been banned or threatened with banning for suggesting violence and homicide.

As a physician, I have been threatened in the past, and know that there is a low but consistent thread of violence against providers. Psychiatrists have the highest threat, but disgruntled and imbalanced patients of all sorts have stormed clinics and killed doctors, nurses and receptionists. When the surrounding rhetoric of our media, be it internet or MSM, includes violence and homicidal threats, it encourages these folks to act on their evil and unbalanced ideas.

Insurance companies have been denying care for decades. It is happening right now. Are you advocating that folks should be threatening their providers for the actions of the insurance companies? Gee thanks.

Mr RV and ZRIII - I or any competent and reasonable physician or their staff could easily become the victim of someone inspired by the kind of mob mentality violence you are fantasizing about. Their are more reasonable ways to frame this discussion without putting people at risk.

Sorry RIcardo, my lack of c... (Below threshold)

Sorry RIcardo, my lack of caffeine and anger make for errors in ID, it was justrand, not you I meant to finger.

Good thing I want using my Glock, right?

epadorSadly, some of... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Sadly, some of the anger that will be generated over this Socialism will probably be directed at the doctors. I think this will make some docs say 'I quit' and discourage good med students from becoming docs.
It's unfortunate because it's not the Docs who will be making the rules, it will be the Ubercommisar or HealthCzar or whatever stupid hipster name they come up for it.

I don't like talking about the subject either, but many are thinking it.
There are people in America, as opposed to a European-minded sheeple, who, if a loved one slowly dies while on a list to get lifesaving treatment that normally gets delivered right away under our present system....well, the czar or deputy czar or deputy assistant czar or whomever is going to be personally held to account. And if our 'leaders' or the 'politically favored' are seen jumping to the head of the line or somesuch,... hoo boy. Things will get ugly.

Where is AARP?!?!?!?!?!... (Below threshold)

Where is AARP?!?!?!?!?!

Where is the AMA?!!?!?!?!

Where are all the advocates for the elderly, the handicapped, the sick, the young?

Oh, that's where they are: in Obama's pocket.

Too busy advocating for businesses to install ramps and disabled parking spots. Too busy to defend the lives of the defenseless from cutthroat communists in power.

Should we install suicide p... (Below threshold)

Should we install suicide parlors that show you videos of all the beautiful things you loved in life while your consciousness fades to black?

Obama: "Why pay for Soylent Red, when Soylent Green is just as tasty?"

Upset Old Guy:"Jus... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Upset Old Guy:

"Just an honest question here, Ryan. What evidence or knowledge of Seamus do you have that makes you think this is just an act?"

Maybe it's not an act. Who knows? I have no idea who "seamus" is, but it's pretty easy to spot people who have seriously crossed the line when it comes to online "discussions".


There are lots of valid opinions out there, and many different points of view. There is no reason to go around treating people like hell just because they have a different political perspective. But then, that's a pretty pervasive problem on both sides. Seamus is just one example from the so-called "left", and there are plenty.

It's never really easy to talk about political and social issues and maintain a cool head, but it's worth trying. People like seamus who use the anonymity of the internet to be an a$$ drive me crazy--it's just more of the Michael Moore/Ann Coulter polemics. Good for ratings and some laughs, but usually not so good for actually bridging the political gaps, so to speak.

But then, not everyone is very interested in dialog. There is nothing wrong with having strong opinions, or being critical, IMO, but when it is done at the expense of others, well, I find it pretty pointless. I suppose "seamus" just gets a kick out of being such a rebel and writing like that.

Anyway JLawson, thanks for giving my typical liberal leftist marxist socialist commie (etc) drivel a fair shake around here...


Wouldn't do it if I didn't ... (Below threshold)

Wouldn't do it if I didn't think you were worth talking to, Ryan. We might not agree - but then again, we just might - and we'll never bridge the gaps unless we DO communicate.

Ryan - Thanks for respondin... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

Ryan - Thanks for responding.

Maybe I'm just less tolerant but when someone chooses to be abrasive and bullying while concealing their identity I assume it's done by intention. And that they conceal their identity specifically so they can behave that way, not just to be anonymous for the sake of remaining anonymous. It frees them to behave in ways they lack the courage to behave in their daily lives.

Anyhow, I'm good with this. You grant Seamus the benefit of doubt, and I don't.

Lawson is right, your writing is both well considered and expressed. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.






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