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The Fall Of The Lizardoid King

OK, time to dip my toes into the Great Little Green Footballs transmogrification.

I long ago stopped checking on Little Green Footballs regularly a while ago, when I started realizing subconsciously that it simply doesn't say very much I'm interested in reading. This was a gradual process; it used to be one of the sites I checked several times a day. But I find myself poking in there more and more often lately, with the same sort of morbid fascination one reserves for car wrecks and horrific crime scenes.

This week, there were two elements that struck me as the most entertaining.

First up, Johnson's whole take on the Rush Limbaugh/NFL mess. Johnson repeatedly brought up the most offensive remarks attributed to Limbaugh -- the "slavery did some good" and "Martin Luther King, Jr.'s assassin deserves a Nobel Peace Prize" quotes.

The only problem is, there is not a shred of evidence to indicate Limbaugh ever said them. The sole source is a book by a radical leftist activist who offers absolutely no citations -- no date, no time, no location, nothing. Further, Limbaugh has categorically denied saying either.

That doesn't matter to Johnson. He says that there is no proof that Limbaugh didn't say them, and besides, he's said other bad things.

That ain't the Charles Johnson I remember. The Charles Johnson I admired was one of the leaders in establishing the "fake but accurate" argument as not an excuse, but a confession. Back during the Dan Rather/Texas Air National Guard fiasco, Johnson's "flashing memo" showing almost indisputably that the CBS memos about President Bush were almost inescapably a forgery.

That Charles Johnson would look at the current Charles Johnson's championing of the "fake but accurate" attack on Limbaugh and go ballistic at his current self.

The current Charles Johnson not only doesn't recognize his own descent, but he glories in it -- reveling in Limbaugh's protesting about being lied about, and boasting of being part of the lynch mob that cheerfully repeated the most vile of lies.

(It's also remarkably enlightening that CNN spent more time fact-checking a Saturday Night Live skit than reports that Limbaugh had praised slavery and the assassin of Dr. Martin Luther King. And even more enlightening that the fact-checking and retractions (even half-assed ones like "we can't prove he actually said this") didn't come out until the damage was done and Limbaugh had been denied a chance to buy into the NFL.)

Now, I've not cared about Limbaugh in a very, very long time, but the other matter strikes close to home to me. And that's Johnson's remarkably flexible standards about blog comments.

To Johnson, each and every single comment on a blog is a direct reflection on the blog's owners and authors. Even those that attack the authors, disagree with the authors, and are repudiated by the authors -- if they are not deleted and the commenter not banned, then they count as a tacit endorsement by the authors.

Witness the latest (very, very weak) salvo against Johnson's current bete noir, Hot Air.

Oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with Johnson's comment policy.

No, not the one he espouses and enforces ferociously (both directly and through his trusted minions, such as infamous serial hatemonger Killgore Trout), but the one he publishes at the top of every single comment thread:

* Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
* Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
* Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
* Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
* Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
* REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

That's a reasonable, sensible, logical, fair, and balanced policy.

Pity Charles doesn't believe in it any more.

And even more the pity that he can't tolerate others abiding by his stated policies.

I speak from experience. I recently revived my long-unused login at LGF to denounce Killgore Trout's hit-and-run attack on Hot Air, where he left about a dozen racist comments in the middle of the night, then denounced Hot Air for not immediately deleting them and banning him.

Trout, it should be noted, is a trusted moderator at LGF and still a loyal, valued minion there. He's thanked in the Hot Air comments article cited above.

Anyway, I obeyed all the published rules for comments -- but as soon as Charles woke up, my comments were all deleted and I was banned. My offense was against the unpublished rule -- Thou Shalt Not Disagree With Charles And His Inner Cabal.

No great loss.

I have never ascribed to the "delete disagreeable comments" philosophy. I hold the words of a commenter the responsibility of the commenter alone. If the commenter in question goes beyond what I consider the bounds of propriety or legality (which I define very liberally), I will act, but for the most part I believe that 'if you want to proclaim yourself an ass, I will not protect you from yourself."

If Charles had the slightest bit of integrity left, he'd correct his published comments policy to reflect how he's actually enforcing them.

Oh, and he'd go through his site's dictionary and clean up some of the hate-filled language there -- "Nazimedia," "Islamofascist," "ZioNazi," "Oil Ticks," "Religion Of Pieces," "St. Pancake," "Aloha Snackbar," "Fwench," "IslamoNazi," "Jordyptian," "Frogistan," "Holy Shiite," "Sudden Jihad Syndrome," "Paleostinian," and a host of others.

I'd HATE to see you judged by the wordsd you posted yourself on your own site, Charles...


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Comments (47)

I cannot imagine even stopp... (Below threshold)

I cannot imagine even stopping by there any more, and it used to be a site I regularly read. It is now a worthless site, utterly infested with trolls all bent on spewing hard Left bullshit.

I'm not surprised in the least about how they handled the Rush Limbaugh phoney quotes episode.

LGF was known as a key EXPOSER of fakes and frauds. Now they are a key PURVEYOR of fakes of frauds.
Pathetic and sad.

And LGF can only muster up ... (Below threshold)
Adrian Browne:

And LGF can only muster up 500 - 1000 comments per thread.

So if they add a Best Take ... (Below threshold)

So if they add a Best Take Down of Charles Johnson category to the annual end of the year blog awards the final paragraph alone makes this post a very strong contender.

Adrian, it ain't quantity, ... (Below threshold)

Adrian, it ain't quantity, but quality.

And when you're talking in an echo chamber, it's no surprise the sounds keep going and going and going...


Jay Tea:I had the sa... (Below threshold)

Jay Tea:
I had the same experience. I think Charles drank the Kool-aid.

I got banned for saying Oba... (Below threshold)

I got banned for saying Obama has dual citizenship. Turns out he lost it when he turned 23. I wouldn't have lasted long anyhow. How bad is the banning? I would doubt 5% of the posters there have been there over three years. Ironically it was Rush mentioning LGF during his show that got me hooked on the site.

I stopped going there over ... (Below threshold)

I stopped going there over a year ago. There are other sites these days that make more sense, although I still appreciate his Rathergate contribution.

It used to be a serious website, but it got a little too self-important.

I just got curious and went... (Below threshold)

I just got curious and went over to LGF for a quick visit.

Wow. The bowl really does circle counter-clockwise in the northern hemisphere, doesn't it?

He's worse than John (Ballo... (Below threshold)

He's worse than John (Balloon juice) Cole now.

I think some of these guys get a little full of themselves, maybe make a mistake or two, and then instead of just admitting it, they keep doubling down and down until the hole is so deep there's no getting out of it.

I am afraid Charles has jum... (Below threshold)

I am afraid Charles has jumped the shark. I no longer visit either.

Glad you agree and endorse ... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Glad you agree and endorse the commneting policy at LGF.

"That's a reasonable, sensible, logical, fair, and balanced policy. "

and you include this as "reasonable" etc.

* Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.

And yet this is you yesterday:

"Some day Vic will learn to read. 17. Posted by Jay Tea | October 17, 2009 1:55 PM |

and this:

"Being an American man can be hard work, Vic. I understand if you wouldn't have any knowledge of that. J. 24. Posted by Jay Tea | October 17, 2009 4:05 PM |"

and this:

"Good lord, you're SO worthless... J. 25. Posted by Jay Tea | October 17, 2009 4:08 PM |"

and this:

"Oh, Miss Vickie, you're so ADORABLE when you're obtuse. J. 36. Posted by Jay Tea | October 17, 2009 5:56 PM |

You're not showing us the comments you made at LGF that you got banned -- no doubt there is a very good reason for you to not show us. My guess is that they would resemble the comments you make on your own blog, where you act like a immature little snit.

If you agree with LGF's "reasonable, sensible, logical" etc policy and then act this way when commenting it is no surprise you got deleted and banned.

And not surprising that you'd then attack LGF for banning you.

I hope you take this criticism in the spirit in which it is intended - to point out to you that which you apparently cant' see for yourself -- namely that you act like an immature little child when you comment on or about someone you disagree with. If you reviewed the comments you made at LGF I suspect you'd find comments you made in the same immature fashion.


I'm a voracious consumer of... (Below threshold)

I'm a voracious consumer of news and opinion. Both sides of the aisle. That's how I inform my own positions -- nothing novel there.

LGF has long been a site I visit regularly. Several times a day. Yesterday, I removed the bookmark. Not because I can't tolerate the views espoused there -- again, examining disparate thoughts is always a good thing. I removed the LGF link because lately there's too much nastiness -- vitriol -- personal attacks -- just plain bad karma.

This may seem trite, but for me the most troubling aspect is that floating in LFG's roiling sea of negativity you'll find glorious musical gems. Keith Jarrett ... Pat Methany ... Brad Mehldau ... Miles ... I simply can't understand why anyone would splatter these glimpses of heaven with such vile muck.

Yes, Vic, but you haven't b... (Below threshold)

Yes, Vic, but you haven't been banned yet, despite your own daily efforts.

As the Zen Master said, "Wait and see."

LOL at all the "abuse" left... (Below threshold)

LOL at all the "abuse" left in the comments, Vic. That's some tame, tame stuff to find on a blog these days. That's some thick skin over there at LGF!

Give it up. There are way too many questionable banning stories from LGF for you guys to maintain anything resembling credibility among those of us who don't have a dog in the fight, but watch with bemused detachment. Why do you even bother to defend yourselves? Best leave that to the vast chamber of echoes in which you love to revel.

I think Jay should have sh... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

I think Jay should have shown us the comments that got him banned.

For him to claim he stayed inside of LGF's commenting guidelines and didn't give the blog a good reason to ban him for being an immature little rock thrower is suspect given the attitude he shows when commenting here.


Ole Chuckles lost it... (Below threshold)

Ole Chuckles lost it when he got booted from Pajamas Media.

He's been on a personal jihad against anyone associated with PJM ever since.

And now he's expanded his grudge to most anyone on the right side of the blogosphere.

Poor VIC, pointedly disagre... (Below threshold)

Poor VIC, pointedly disagree with him and you're "abusing" him.

Oh for crying out loud, Vic... (Below threshold)

Oh for crying out loud, Vic. I NEVER posted over there and was banned solely because I "updinged" a few posts that dared to disagree with Johnson.

Vic, I'd love to show you t... (Below threshold)

Vic, I'd love to show you the comments I made. But foolishly, I didn't save them, and they were deleted.

And as noted, you're still allowed to post here. I had you in mind (among others) when I talked about letting people hang themselves.

As for the tone of my remarks... well, truth is an absolute defense.


Vic:This is why I ... (Below threshold)


This is why I got banned.


I was factually wrong on the Kenyan thing but not by much. I was a member of LGF since Rathergate. Tell me where I went afoul of the banning policy?

The ink pixels wasted on LG... (Below threshold)
Baron Von Ottomatic:

The ink pixels wasted on LGF and C.J. on the conservative side of the blogosphere is as baffling to me as the foofarah over balloon boy. I used to check it out every now and again, but there was hardly ever any original content. Unless you count pictures of bicycle parts and sunsets.

Unlike the Taliban in Afghanistan, this is one annoyance we should ignore and let go away of its own momentum.

Considering the current reality, though, Wizbang should remove the site from the link roll.

hey Jay,have you see... (Below threshold)
rain of lead:

hey Jay,
have you seen this, chuckie has been reduced to a comic book

Bite me comics presents
Chuck Johnson Race dective


now that's funny, I don't care who you are!

And LGF can only muster ... (Below threshold)
James Cloninger:

And LGF can only muster up 500 - 1000 comments per thread.

Of which Sharmuta, Kilgore Trout account for 75% of the comments...

I ban you all from the inte... (Below threshold)
Mad King Charles:

I ban you all from the internets. You are now exiled. All of you.

<a href="http://www.youtube... (Below threshold)
Kilgore Trout, lackey of Charles In Charge:


Come tour the empire, but if you show any disloyalty you will be banned.

Vic, Charles al... (Below threshold)

Charles always deletes the banned
comments. You'd know that if you had ever
read any of his threads.

I've read enough of LGF's p... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

I've read enough of LGF's posts to recognize that the site is moving more towards center and is exhibiting little patience with the far right wingnut conspiracy theories - the birthers, etc.

But this is where I think Jay might have gone wrong - he wrote:

That Charles Johnson would look at the current Charles Johnson's championing of the "fake but accurate" attack on Limbaugh and go ballistic at his current self.

Jay's complain agains Charles that claims Charles is "championing" a "fake but accurate" attack on Limbaugh deserves another look.

What Charles apparently did was discount the two Limbaugh quotes that everyone else agrees are ins dispute and instead base his opinion of Limbaugh on the accurate quotes that Jay completely ignores.

Jay claims that the attack on Limbaugnh is based on fake quotes. That simple doesn't match reality - we all know there are two accurate, undisputed quotes made by Limbaugh specifically about the NFL and NFL players - and that those quotes are what got him booted out of the Rams deal.

For Jay to instead claim that Limbaugh is innocent and that the quotes attributed to him are fake is disingenuous.

It would seem that LGF is enforcing a policy that prohibits lying.

I agree, lying isn't specifically cited in the comment policy - but it would fall under "Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks..." in my opinion.

LGF throws out birthers. Throwing out someone who ignores reality by claiming that Limbaugh was booted for racist remarks he didn't make must, in the mind of the LGF moderators, fall under the same category of silly and annoying.

There are many echo chambers. Wizbang seems to be one where Limbaugh is painted as a victim and the quotes attributed to Limbaugh are all labeled "fake" - but the fact remains that there are several racist remarks made by Limbaugh - one of which caused him to leave his post at ESPN in 2003 and another that was lifted off his website from a transcript of his January, 2007 radio show - that are not fake.

Claiming those were fake may have been the cause of Jay's banning - given that we can't see the specific comments Jay made.

Still, Jay shows a pattern of attacking the messenger instead of the message here on Wizbang, and throwing insults out could have contributed as well. We just don't know.


Vic...little punkin,... (Below threshold)

Vic...little punkin,
Grow up and get out of mommy's basement. There's a big, wide world out there.

Vic, completely fabricated ... (Below threshold)

Vic, completely fabricated quotes were put in Limbaugh's mouth and passed along as true. And even after his staunch denials and the complete lack of any supporting evidence, they are still being quoted and attributed to him.

That makes him a victim of defamation.

You bring up his other controversial statements. You don't actually quote them or give them context, but you do allude to them.

No, the quotes that get the full treatment -- and then coupled with a "could not verify" tag -- are the most inflammatory.

There's an old saying: extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. The claim that Limbaugh said these two things is extraordinary. The proof that he did so is extraordinarily nonexistent.

Tell you what, Vic: you admit that it's almost certain Limbaugh never said the "slavery had its benefits" and "MLK's assassin deserves a medal," and we'll discuss some actual Limbaugh quotes. Deal?


(Not betting the rent on this one...)

Continuing to hype the unso... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Continuing to hype the unsourced quotes while you're ignoring the obvious, undisputed quotes about the NFL players is how you got in trouble over at LGF - and here you are trying hard to divert attention away to those quotes that are in dispute again.

Limbaugh made racist remarks. Shining the light away from what he said and shining it instead on what is disputed is disingenuous if you then claim that Limbaugh is being hung for "fake but accurate" racist quotes.

There are two accurate, undisputed remarks made by Limbaugh. You've heard them, everyone has heard them. Ignoring them is pointless, and yet you persist.

Silly comes to mind, as does annoying - but you went one step further -- claiming that Limbaugh's remarks were all unsourced and "fake".

That's not true.


Vic, when did you stop beat... (Below threshold)

Vic, when did you stop beating your wife? Prove it.

I just went to LGF and foun... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

I just went to LGF and found a post about Limbaugh that includes this:

"Limbaugh denies making two of the comments attributed to him, but blithely leaps past the many comments he has indisputably made. It's a classic defense lawyers' technique -- get people to focus on one or two problematic points, and hope they don't notice the mountain of evidence that is documented and proven."

That's exactly what Jay attempted to do above - focus on the disputed quotes and pretend the actual remarks Limbaugh made about the NFL and NFL players don't exist.

And I guess there are some who still believe that if you repeat a lie often enough, for example claim that the quotes attributed to Limbaugh are all fake, if you repeat that lie often enough some people will believe you.

Apparently that doesn't fly at LGF. It'll get you banned is my guess.


Vic,You say Limbau... (Below threshold)
BD Author Profile Page:


You say Limbaugh made racist remarks.

Sorry, your word isn't good enough. I don't trust you and I don't trust your judgment.

Prove it. Date, comment & context.

Vic, my comments at LGF wer... (Below threshold)

Vic, my comments at LGF were in denouncing Killgore Trout's plastering Hot Air with racist comments in the middle of the night, then denouncing them for not deleting them immediatelhy. Limbaugh never came up.

I made an offer, Vic -- you admit that Limbaugh in all likelihood never made the two most inflammatory quotes, and was defamed by those who said he did, and I'll discuss the other ones.

You brought up the bullshit ones, so it's on you to back off them.

There's no reason to avoid doing so, Vic. After all, they've served their purpose -- Limbaugh's out of the investment group. Everyone else is walking back from them.


Jay - You still claim that ... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

Jay - You still claim that Limbaugh's remarks about the NFL are phony and made up?

How absolutely bizarre.

There are several quotes attributed to Limbaugh which are disputed - those two are not disputed. Those two quotes about the NFL got NFL players pissed off. They threatened a boycott of the Rams if Limbaugh was allowed in.

Simple facts.


And Jay - why was "18. Post... (Below threshold)
Victory is Ours:

And Jay - why was "18. Posted by Still An Unrepentant Democrat | October 18, 2009 12:39 PM" deleted?


"Vic,Charles always ... (Below threshold)

Charles always deletes the banned
comments. You'd know that if you had ever
read any of his threads."

That's not precisely true. The comments are not deleted in that they are erased. Rather, they are hidden from the thread. They are still there, lurking, in case Johnson wants to bring them back.

His problem is that he has too many comments to fondle to begin with.

Oh, SAUD... I didn't notice... (Below threshold)

Oh, SAUD... I didn't notice you were deleted. I wish you hadn't been; your comment was utterly pointless, irrelevant, and worthless.

In other words, entirely representative of you.

My article wasn't about the things Limbaugh said, but about the things he didn't say -- and how he's being punished for things he didn't say.

And for you to say I sound like Limbaugh... I'm half complimented, half offended.

Then I take the source into account, and just shrug it off.


SAUD, you're such a kidder.... (Below threshold)

SAUD, you're such a kidder.

Shorter SAUD/JFO:"... (Below threshold)

Shorter SAUD/JFO:

"I hate Limbaugh, so everything's fair game. Even making stuff up. And the same goes for Tea, but double, because he actually pays attention to me."

I'll make the same offer to you, SAUD/JFO: admit the two most provocative shots at Limbaugh were bullshit, and I'll talk about whatever VERIFIED ones you like.


vic - "we all know ther... (Below threshold)

vic - "we all know there are two accurate, undisputed quotes made by Limbaugh specifically about the NFL and NFL players - and that those quotes are what got him booted out of the Rams deal."

Ah-huh and one quote is at least three decades old - anyone remember a certain Dem Sen. that wore a white KKK hat DECADES AGO - and the second quote about McNabe is easily misinterpreted by those, like you, looking for anything to slam someone they disagree with.

And btw, your second assertion that he got booted for the comments is something you CAN'T possibly know unless you were a fly on the wall at NFL HQ.

Were you? If not you're just an opportunistic bomb thrower.

But we already knew that.

SAUD - "And how Oh grea... (Below threshold)

SAUD - "And how Oh great Oracle Tea have you divined that Limbaugh is "being punished for things he didn't say" in view of the offensive things he did say?"

Geesh, nothing like setting yourself up for a fall SAUD:

"And how Oh great Oracle" SAUD "have you divined that Limbaugh is "being punished for things he" did "say"

Put simply, 'cause it's the only way to get thru that thick skull of yours, you have no more proof of your claim than Jay Tea does.

Saud/JFO has been banned a... (Below threshold)

Saud/JFO has been banned and is accessing
Wizbang by proxie ip addresses.

I recall the early days aft... (Below threshold)

I recall the early days after 9-11 when LGF was often targetted for hitpieces by MSM and other blogs. The charge of Islamophobia was often directed at LGF solely on the basis of cherry picking comments at LGF.

This charge was sheeted home despite the above comments policy at LGF clearing stating comments did not reflect LGF policies. Any reasonable person could understand that.

Indeed enough of the comments were vile enough that I hardly ever read any of them anyway and only visted LGF for Chuck's posts.

And that's a process I do a lot less since it became a modern day rendition of The Crucible.

My account still works, but... (Below threshold)

My account still works, but I don't visit anymore so its self censorship. The site has nothing of value to offer me so whats the use...

and VIO, you are the perfect case in point to go over to LGF, you'll fit right in. CJ would love you strictly on the basis that you post unsourced bullshit.

I haven't listened to Limba... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

I haven't listened to Limbaugh in years, but I am offended by the smear campaign against him. If we do not defend him against these baseless charges now, who will defend us if we become the targets of the rabid left tomorrow?

Concerning Charles Johnson, I can take no joy in witnessing the deterioration of a man. I don't know what has led him down this long spiral into madness, but there was obviously something beyond public knowledge which has contributed to it.

The best thing we can do for CJ now is to pray for him. We should begin a virtual prayer vigil for him right now.

Went to LGF today for th... (Below threshold)
Allan Blackwell:

Went to LGF today for the first time in, apparently, quite some time. Yipe. Not only not the site I knew, but seemed more akin to the guy in rags (wait, it was a woman) in Harvard Square, decrying his MkUltra treatment by Dick Cheney and Jerry Falwell. My next step was to Google LGF+left+turn. Thanks, Jay, for independent verification.






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