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The Balance Between Judgment and Hysteria

Thursday's shootings at Fort Hood have naturally evoked strong emotions. And the media and some prominent political leaders have taken all-too-predictable postures, two of which I feel compelled to address. The falsehood that Islam is aligned with terrorism and malice, and the falsehood that Islam is a victim in such situations as this, with innocents who worry about an unreasonable backlash. Both contentions are wrong.

First, about Islam. There are over 1.5 billion practicing Muslims in the world. So far, there have been 221 terrorist incidents in 2009 through November 2, so even if we say that every single one of those were committed by a Muslim (including attacks in Greece, Ireland, South Africa, and the Starbucks bomb in New York) and that two dozen Muslims were involved on average in each incident, that only implicates 5,304 Muslims and means that over 99.999% of Muslims worldwide had nothing to do with terrorism so far this year. Frankly, if even one percent of Muslims worldwide had it in for America, or even against Israel, we'd see an unprecedented level of violence and murders, because even one percent of Islam would be a force of 15 million terrorists, and no realistic estimate of terrorist activity has ever come close to a million total, much less 15 million. Between Iraq and Afghanistan, over 50 million Muslims have come into close and regular contact with U.S. troops. While there are places of hostility against the West and the U.S. in particular, and some spots rank with pure evil and hatred, the soldiers who have been there will tell you that it has much more to do with culture and politics than religion. For most Muslims, their faith is a private matter between them and God, a question of living honestly and by their best ideals, and hatred towards another human is a sin to be avoided. Most Muslims love their families and their nation, and have a generally tolerant outlook towards everyone else.

So what happens when someone like Nidal Hasan (allegedly) decides to kill innocents while screaming the name of his god? To me, once you get past the emotion and look at the facts, pretty much the same thing as any fanatic who goes psychotic. Hasan had no wife or girlfriend, he had no close friends, even his family and those at Fort Hood who had the most contact with him note that he was distant and aloof. While Hasan complained to some family that he was being mocked for his Muslim beliefs, other Muslims at Fort Hood emphasized that the military accommodated them at all times and they felt proud to serve with the men and women in the U.S. Military. When you dig down to the bottom of it, Hasan was a lot like another Islamist Loser: Khalid Sheikh Muhammad.


Does this look like a chick magnet? A guy who wants to raise a family and be a good husband and father, someone who thinks first about his moral duties and personal integrity?

No. In any culture, this guy is a loser, albeit a clever and dangerous psychopathic loser. He and the real world were quits, so he joined up with a group of other losers who tried to compensate for their personal failures by blaming everyone else. And that is what hapened with Major Hasan. He became bitter about his place in the world, and decided to punish everyone else. That's really the only way to explain how someone could decide to kill a roomful of innocent people, most of whom he had no grievance whatsoever, including a 21-year-old pregnant soldier, a band member, two soldiers who had just returned from Iraq, and two others who were being deployed to Afghanistan just as Major Hasan was scheduled to go, among others. This was not a blow against some imperial power, it was the impotent scream of a coward.

Islam has its share of such cowards, to be sure, but so has Christianity and other religions. Remember the cowards who bombed abortion clinics in the name of Christ? Anti-war protesters who think nothing of attacking soldiers in the name of peace? Look at the troubles in Northern Ireland for nearly a century - there is nothing in either the Anglican or Roman Catholic dogmas to excuse the kidnappings, torture, bombings, and murders that happened there for so long. Consider the tribal conflicts in Rwana and Burundi not so long ago, or the cold-blooded extermination practices of Miloslavic and his Serbs. Even Buddhism, founded on clear commitment to reverance for life, has its share of extremists, including Triad groups who see no conflict in murdering people then going to temple to be 'spiritually cleansed', so they won't feel bad about their crimes. My point is that some people will abuse the tenets of any religion.

- continued -

So why do Muslims not march in outrage over the hijacking of their faith? For one thing, I don't believe they feel they should have to state what they think is obvious. Even though most serial killers are white males, I have never felt it necessary to point out that most white males would never commit murder. Even though many crimes were committed in the name of Christ over the years, most notably during the various Inquisitions, even atheists and Muslims recognize that Christianity in its essence had nothing to do with the spirit of evil which tortured and killed in the name of the Prince of Peace.

It is true that certain teachings of Mohammed are troubling to non-Muslims, but let's not forget that other beliefs have had similar problem areas. Most Mormons today live exemplary lives of charity, tolerance and humility, and so have very little in common with the racist, xenophobic Joseph Smith. Many Scientologists are open-minded and just want to live by their creed, and so have almost nothing in common with the arrogant and greedy L. Ron Hubbard. Come to that, I am a Southern Baptist but have little in common with most of the denomination's leading ministers. I'm not saying they aren't fine men and honest, but a man whose career focuses on only one creed and point of view has trouble seeing things the same way as a working man who sees real life from the perspectives of the street and the diversity of a truly global community.

Also, Islam is rooted in the culture of the Middle East. While American Muslims live in the modern world, their faith comes from a place where women and the young are expected to give way to the men and the elders, where criticism is uncommon because it so often leads to conflict and escalation, and where challenging those in authority is seen as rebellion rather than reasonable doubt and skepticism. Even the Roman Catholics have their Jesuits to challenge assumptions; Islam has not yet reached the point where theologians can help the faith become relevant to changing social and cultural conditions. Whatever he was, the prophet Mohammed did not prepare his people for a world of cultural diversity and demographic trend shifts.

That brings us to the second problem. Islam likes to play the victim card, even when a Muslim is the criminal. It is very difficult for a Mullah to explain why a man like Osama bin Laden, educated and from a good family, would countenance the murder of innocents on a Hitler-like scale. So they evade the question and try to leverage a sense of guilt from the victims, because the United States is a generous and open-minded country, one of very few willing to examine its own behavior in a critical way. No one in the Saudi royal family, for instance, has ever shown an interest in criticizing their own policies and behavior in the past, and the Palestinans are even worse. These guys have made the wrong choice in every major decision, since they chose to back the Nazis in World War 2. But rather than consider the foundation of so many bad choices, Palestinian leaders chose instead to insult and attack Isreal, precisely because Israel is careful of its behavior and considerate of the rights of Pelstinans in most cases.

In the Unted States, Islam has always shown that it sensed its place in America as a tolerated segment of the population, rather than a welcome member of the community. This comes to some degree from a certain discomfort with the way Muslims speak and act and dress, but it also comes from Muslims' self-chosen segregation. Muslims do not eat the same foods as most Americans, do not attend the same entertainment and recreational events as most Americans, and do not treat Americans as close friends in most cases. Islam is not liberal in the traditional sense, many Muslims act as if Americans carry a kind of infection, and so it is difficult for a non-Muslim to be close friends with a believer. Even in the heart of America, Muslims often act is if they must live apart. This happens with other faiths, of course. Hasidic Jews, for example, also cordon themselves off from contact with Gentiles and they have strict dress and dietary codes which set them apart. Some fundamentalists also dress, eat, and behave in ways that seem strange to most Americans. But there are many more Muslims than Hasidic Jews or fundamentalist Christians, and so the segregated culture becomes more obvious.

The acts of a Hasan or other psychotic Muslims is an issue that has no easy answer, but it is important for non-Muslims to recognize that such behavior is anomolous to Islam, just as it is important for Islam as a whole to recognize that these extremists must be denounced in the interest of understanding what makes someone a Muslim, and what does not.


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Comments (54)

DJ... with total respect, I... (Below threshold)

DJ... with total respect, I ask a simple question... for every Muslim that commits an atrocious act of violence, how many Muslims approve?

Rick, no more than Christia... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Rick, no more than Christians who applaud the bombing of an abortion clinic.

You can always find a few sick individuals to applaud horrific violence, but on the whole Islam is sickened by these things. From what I have heard from Muslims I know, however, the problem is that as soon as they hear about such an act, they quickly worry about how they will be seen by the public. I think it comes from a sense of futility, most Muslims do not feel they have the place to speak on behalf of Islam, and they blame the media for attaching Islam to the act, even when the murderer screams the name of Allah while doing his killing.

"Does this look like a chic... (Below threshold)

"Does this look like a chick magnet? A guy who wants to raise a family and be a good husband and father, someone who thinks first about his moral duties and personal integrity?"

Well, in retrospect knowing who he is...... However, if you have the cross-cultural gift of judging someone's morals just by physical appearance, you have an amazing gift.

Dave, I think you will get ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Dave, I think you will get SO much more out of the article if you bother to read ALL of it, and consider the context next time.

This is a hard post to swal... (Below threshold)

This is a hard post to swallow for a number of reasons. Dave pointed out one thing that really bothered me Does this look like a chick magnet? A guy who wants to raise a family and be a good husband and father, someone who thinks first about his moral duties and personal integrity?

You see you build up an argument based on statistical data and then you jump off the fence and allude to ones looks to being the base for ability in fatherhood, responsibility and integrity. This is way off.

As to the condemnation of acts committed by so-called Christians by Christians the response is always immediate. I have yet to see an act not publicly condemned as fast as it occurs.

When we reflect on the volume of terrorist activity worldwide we must not negate that the common thread usually is a Muslim. I reflect sadly on the cheering and celebration following the 9-11 attacks by the Muslim world.

The struggle in the United States is that we are so politically correct now that it is impossible to function rationally.

Take for example a doctor that is a psychiatrist, who cannot emotional handle the stress is a problem. In fact this doctor received poor reviews and yet he was shipped off to another duty station. Why? Was his ethnic background the reason as to why he was kept on instead of evaluating the doctor. Why was no one concerned when he voiced concerns about heading to the Middle East? It seems like the dance on eggshells for this man went well beyond giving one the benefit of the doubt. I am speculating, but have tremendous amounts of evidence of people being called racist for making simple comments. We are called racist for being against the health care plan, so I believe that I can take this reasoning to the Military being concerned to *flag* this officer because it may be deemed as a racial actions.

This man will be remembered for this atrocious act as it is unique. We will also take his faith in to our memories as he himself propped this up(via writings he had on the internet, comments he told patients and fellow staff, and what is allegedly been reported that he yelled as he was shooting.)

And back to the chick magnet-integrity comment...I guess you are not too informed about those who are blowing themselves up and are terrorists* in our eyes. They are treated respectfully and are responsible in the eyes of those around him. Saddam actually paid the families of the suicide bombers about 25,000 dollars. This comment actually makes the rest of the post hard to read and take seriously. Perhaps you meant something else but it rings hollow with the very argument you try and take.

I really struggle with the ... (Below threshold)

I really struggle with the fact that so very few Muslims speak out against atrocities all over the world committed by ideological murdering thugs, their so-called brothers and sisters. Is it fear ... or do they deep down inside approve of the killings? I've seen immediate condemnation of horrific murders done in the name of other religions, just not Muslim. The silence is disturbing.

The elephant-sized point yo... (Below threshold)

The elephant-sized point you are missing is that the Koran INSTRUCTS psychos like Hasan to murder non-believers! It is their DUTY. And along with then being permitted to steal all of the murdered individuals stuff, abuse his wife/daughters and sell family members into slavery if desired the "devout" Muslim then becomes a HERO in his sick community of fellow perverts.

I've yet to see countless, ... (Below threshold)

I've yet to see countless, and I do mean countless, pictures of jubilant Christians dancing in the streets when an abortionist has been murdered. Perhaps if someone could shoot me a link to one, I'll understand the comparison.

Drummond, you lost me when ... (Below threshold)

Drummond, you lost me when you limited your terrorist actions to 2009 like in 2008 there were not 1.5 billion Muslims. I didn't even read the rest of it because it was obvious from that you're not being honest even with yourself.

There is no pro-life versio... (Below threshold)

There is no pro-life version of CAiR defending anti-abortion violence.

DJ Drummond [answering THIS... (Below threshold)

DJ Drummond [answering THIS question: "for every Muslim that commits an atrocious act of violence, how many Muslims approve?"]

"Rick, no more than Christians who applaud the bombing of an abortion clinic."

You're joking...right?

Have you forgotten the scenes from 9/11 of Muslims worldwide in the streets CELEBRATING the death of 3,000 innocent Americans via an "atrocious act of violence"??

And that day was not an exception.

Those who call themselve... (Below threshold)

Those who call themselves Christians are suppose to follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. Christ did not wage war, his only act of anger was directed against those who used religion as a means to wealth and power. He taught his followers to be "harmless as doves", to render unto Caesar, and yielded peacefully to the legal authority that unjustly executed him. HE did not use violence to force change on his society yet his teachings have helped lead to such changes as religious freedom, and the abolition of slavery.
Contrast this to the teachings and example of Mohammed through Islam, and Sharia Law. His followers are taught to wage Jihad of the Heart(internal), the Hand (charity), and when the time is right "The Sword". I suspect that most Muslims living in the west are hoping and praying that the time for Jihad of the Sword is far, far away, because they know the hell it would unleash.

for every Muslim t... (Below threshold)
jim m:
for every Muslim that commits an atrocious act of violence, how many Muslims approve?...no more than Christians who applaud the bombing of an abortion clinic.

What a load of BS. As if there weren't muslims dancing in the streets after 9/11 throughout the world. For crying out loud if we beat up the libs for their moral equivocation where oh where do we get off making this BS comparison????

You definitely DO NOT see Christians celebrating in this manner when there is violence against an abortion clinic. No. Instead you see them clamoring to condemn it. You do not see the same thing from muslims in terrorism cases.

DJ for the most part I respect your posts, but this one is a load of crap. It contains the same equivocation and excusing of evil that we criticize the libs of doing.

"Coward" says it all. ... (Below threshold)

"Coward" says it all.

HANG the bastard!

A few responses:</... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

A few responses:

Jennifer: "They [the terrorists] are treated respectfully and are responsible in the eyes of those around him."

Not by the average Muslim. Are you seriously telling me, since you used him for an example, that Saddam Hussein, who did not set foot in a mosque for over a decade, reprsents true Islamic piety? You need to meet some real Muslims, madam!

klrtzf: "there were not 1.5 billion Muslims"

You are quite wrong. http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

To Justrand, yes I remember - apparently in better detail than you. Go back and see just how many people were involved and in what places, what they were actually saying and the way that the media covered them. Are you really telling me now that you trust the MSM to have accurately reflected public opinion, that the gatherings so conveniently timed and placed for the cameras truly represents the way that the average Muslim thought and felt? And if you do, why didn't these regular people attack the US soldiers when they arrived to take out Saddam and the Taliban?

To Wilt, you really need to read the Quran. Yes, there are verses in there which are used to justify killing. But there are many more which condemn attacks on the innocent, on unprovoked violence, and on coercion for faith.

jim m: "the same equivocation and excusing of evil"

Wrong jim. I am reminding you that broad brushes are fine for painting walls, but stupid and malicious when applied to people whose only "offense" is a faith you blame for the hatred of a few. Riddle me this - if Islam is the source of the terrorists' hate, why are so few Muslims involved in actual acts? The evidence shows that an evil few are hijacking the religion for their own perverted purpose. I am not excusing any evil at all, but pointing out that hating Muslims is to play the game of the terrorists.

I could go on. I posted this article to remind you of where the noise is headed - hence the title.

I think it is ironic that t... (Below threshold)

I think it is ironic that this entire post - a monument to rationalization - is a good example of some of the better aspects of various cultures in terms of being willing to not assume the worst of others.

It's also a monumental example of sticking one's head in the sand.

DJ.. go out into the real world and deal with these people for a while, then get back to us on how it's all just one big misunderstanding.

There is a difference between being "hysterical" and simply being sick of someone else's bullshit. There is no easy answer as to when trying to work out differences just isn't worth it anymore; time to do so is bought with the lives of OUR people, and sooner or later our people are going to run out of patience and - as is already being evidenced by quite a few posts here - they're going to stop giving a flying ^%@#$ what you have to say about "hysteria" from the sidelines.

DJ- Because you took the ti... (Below threshold)

DJ- Because you took the time to respond to each of us tells me how concerned you were about your post. It is weak at best, and I wonder if you thought you were being clever with your comparisons. This is a sad post, and your reasoning is off.

I find myself struggling through your longwinded way to find a smoothing path for this man who opened fire on an American base in America.

by the way the *real muslims* in the middle east gladly accepted the 25,000 dollars SIR.

wtfo: "go out into the r... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

wtfo: "go out into the real world and deal with these people for a while"

Reading comprehension's not your thing, is it? I just wrote about real Muslims I know, and pointed out that almost no Muslims have either committed or supported terrorism, but you take my rational discussion and falsely claim it's rationalization.

I get it. You're angry and you want to punish someone. The idea that it is not every Muslim you see, that you can't just hate every Muslim on the planet and feel justified, is a problem for you. Sucks for you, I understand that.

Problem is, there are MUSLIMS fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan AGAINST Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

There are MUSLIMS who risked their lives to vote for democratic governments in their nations.

There are thousands of MUSLIMS in the United States military, in EVERY branch, who risk their lives to protect this nation and what it stands for.

I know a number of real MUSLIMS, who raise their kids and love their wives and husbands, who love this country and what it stands for. From your comments, I seriously doubt you have ever had a serious conversation with even ONE Muslim about terrorism and the Muslim public voice.

I knew going in this would not be a popular thread - it's not what angry people want to be told. But I will not condemn more than one-fifth of the world just because the terrorists claim to represent Islam in their evil. I will not forget that there are many more good Muslims than bad. Even though I do not believe the claims of Islam, I do not forget the entire history of Islam just because most of it does not fit a screed.

It is not surrender to the terrorists to properly call out their lies. It is, however, a defeat for freedom to decide that only certain faiths and beliefs will be tolerated here, or that Muslims must be compelled to prove loyalty in order to enjoy the same rights as anyone else.

This post is Johnsonian, as... (Below threshold)
Duane D:

This post is Johnsonian, as in LGF.

I have explained my post "B... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

I have explained my post "Big O'. With facts and reason.

Please explain to me why Muslims should not have the same rights as other Americans? That seems to be your tack.

I have to agree with #6. As... (Below threshold)
JC Hammer:

I have to agree with #6. As to be racist, would using a picture of the President, dressed in a Nazi uniform, or in Muslim dress be called racist?

We all know if a person uses the "N" word, that is racist. We all know some parts of the southern US still support the KKK, and will do everything in their power to put Black Americans down. At the same time, the Black Americans who wish to be ID as African/Americans are racist.

Either you are an American, or you aren't. Call me racist because I said that, BFD. I call it the way I see it, and the hell with being PC.

Worst article I have ever r... (Below threshold)

Worst article I have ever read on Wizbang.

"Does this look li... (Below threshold)

"Does this look like a chick magnet? A guy who wants to raise a family and be a good husband and father, someone who thinks first about his moral duties and personal integrity"

No, He looks like a drunk with a three day hangover.

Riddle me this - i... (Below threshold)
jim m:
Riddle me this - if Islam is the source of the terrorists' hate, why are so few Muslims involved in actual acts?

I'm still going to disagree with you. I wight ask as well: If over half of americans are against health care reform then why are so few out in the streets protesting?

Just because a few are out in he street acting doesn't mean that there aren't many more who are of the same mind but disinclined to take the same action. The fact that we see many videos of muslims celebrating around the world when 9/11 happened or when the US suffers a defeat should tell you that the terrorists are acting with a large general support.

If terrorist were so few we should have eradicated them long ago in Iraq and Afghanistan. But they are not so few and they do have broad support. Why do people get so concerned about Wahabist mosques spreading terrorist ideology if there are so few to actually worry about?

Your argument doesn't stand up to examination. Just from a historical basis we can see that Islam has spread through violent conquest and has always held itself to be in a mortal conflict with the rest of the world. It has repeatedly tried to conquer Europe. We have even seen polls that show large numbers (if not quite a majority) of muslims supporting terrorist acts and expressing that they were willing to aid and support terrorism to advance muslim beliefs.

So the short answer to your question is that you don't need a lot of people to take up arms. There are 300+million people in America and the military is a rather small portion of that. You also seem to be forgetting that there are thousands of muslims who have gone to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight the US.

Again, this part of your argument doesn't hold any water.

You like statitistics? What... (Below threshold)

You like statitistics? What % of terrorist attacks have been commited by muslims since 1979? What % by Christians, what % by Jews and what % by Hindus?

By the way what is the ONE religion that has committed terrorism against ALL the others in that time frame?

"By the way what is the ONE... (Below threshold)

"By the way what is the ONE religion that has committed terrorism against ALL the others in that time frame?"

Ummmm?? A?

The evidence shows... (Below threshold)
jim m:
The evidence shows that an evil few are hijacking the religion for their own perverted purpose.

What do you call 'an evil few'? Would the nearly 25% of American muslims who said that suicide bombings were justified be a "few"? Would the 42% in France who answered the same way be just a few?

Look, When nearly half of the muslim population in a western democracy is saying that suicide bombing is a reasonable method to achieve your political goals, it has passed from 'an evil few' hijacking the religion to being mainstream belief.

I don't buy that muslims are having their religion hijacked, not when so many are willing to blow up me and my family for the crime of walking and breathing on the face of the earth. When polling in 2009 suggests that 30% of muslims worldwide believe that suicide bombings are justified I cannot accept that this represents a hijacking of their faith. When seen in the light of 1400 years of violence against nonbelievers I have to say that this represents the historical position of the religion and that it is still currently supported by a large plurality of believers.

To ignore this fact is to place ourselves in grave danger. To mischaracterize this as being a tiny minority is a lie and it does amount to excusing evil.

Man, some of you people on ... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Man, some of you people on here just go way overboard.

Yes, this murderer is a Muslim. Does that warrant a broad attack on Muslims as a whole?

No, it does not.

Should all Muslims be expected to start marching in the streets in protest? No, they should not. Why are so many of you so quick to judge over one billion people--as if they all think and act the same? There are Muslims all over the world with different histories, cultural beliefs, and worldviews.

But I suppose it's a lot more comforting to just stick to your ignorant stereotypes about Muslims, as if they all think and act the same, and if they are all somehow implicated by the actions of a few.

Tell me this: what do all of you rabid anti-Muslim folks think about the shooting at Camp Liberty earlier this year? How do you explain that one? Another soldier, another series of murders. Do you just brush that one aside? Was that DIFFERENT? Why? Was it less horrible? Why?

Did we expect some cultural or religious group to take to the streets and start denouncing the Camp Liberty shooting, or did we all assume that such an act is universally deplorable?

Sometimes the reactions of people on this site are absolutely appalling and ridiculous. I cannot even begin to understand what some of you are thinking when you post some of the bullshit that you do.

I can definitely understand the anger and frustration about this event, because it was terrible. But please, seriously, try to remain somewhat rational about what this all means.

There is no need to dismiss this man's actions. He committed horrific and disgusting acts of murder. Period. At the same time, there is no need to overreact and start blaming others for what this person has done.

Get a grip on yourselves, Wizbangers. Please.

"Yes, this murderer is a Mu... (Below threshold)

"Yes, this murderer is a Muslim. Does that warrant a broad attack on Muslims as a whole?

No, it does not"

Thats Your opinion. And where is the "broad attack"? At Fort Hood I suppose.

"But I suppose it's a lot more comforting to just stick to your ignorant stereotypes about Muslims, as if they all think and act the same, and if they are all somehow implicated by the actions of a few"

What in the F are You talking about? Our Service family members get murdered and You start calling any and all Wizbang poster's ignorant for exspressing their views.

Kiss off.

914: what if every Muslim w... (Below threshold)

914: what if every Muslim was expunged from the military? Would you prefer that the armed forces lose almost every Arabic translator?

"Kiss off"--translated into English, you obviously mean "Let us express our ignorant, bigoted opinions in peace." Um, no. Without Muslims in the military, American and Coalition troops in the Middle East and Afghanistan would not be able to communicate with locals and objectives would be a lot harder to obtain. Thankfully people like you are politically and militarily irrelevant.

I have to disagree. Your ma... (Below threshold)
Ken Hahn:

I have to disagree. Your math is so silly as to be unbelievable. 229 incidents? There are that many every day in Kashmir or in Chechnya. There are that many every hour in Lebanon or Gaza. How many Egyptian Copts have been murdered in the name of Islam this year? How many apostates have been killed throughout the Islamic world? How many Muslims have been slaughtered in Iran, Pakistan or Indonesia by Muslim terrorists? Why is the edge of the Islamic world the most violent area on our planet? From Nigeria to India and from Bosnia to Somalia, Muslims regularly riot, terrorize and kill not only members of other faiths but also Muslims who they feel are less than pious. There are probably a billion Muslims in the world ( your number is basically Islamic propaganda ). My best guess is that at least 10% support the extremists. They may not actually kill or torture anyone but they will provide financial and social support toi those who do.

A vast majority of Muslims are decent people. But there are 100,000,000 who are not. Most are trapped in their villages and cities and are unable to actually practice terrorism but they see it as godly and inspired.

Your trying to equate the few thousand Christian fanatics who might support bombing abortion clinics with the vast army of violent jihadis is an insult. Your numbers are a fantasy and your unwillingness to see the threat is foolish. Very small groups of Japanese fanatics terrorized their nation into a suicidal war 70 years ago. Small groups of German fanatics drove a vastly civilized society into acts that horrify us to this day. A minute minority of Cambodians managed to murder 30% of their countrymen. The last time Christianity produced a group of fanatics as influential as the jihadi movement in Islam was the middle ages.

I usually find your writing worth considering. Even if I disagree it gives me material that requires serious thought. But this post was empty of facts, logic or reason.

DJ you are being very naive... (Below threshold)

DJ you are being very naive here.

Read about what is happening in Europe. Even the UK is becoming unrecognizable with their catering to Sharia law, changing their society to accomodate Muslims, etc.

Do you want that here? That is where we are going when we act as though Islam is equivalent to Christianity, Judaism, Buddism, etc. The whole religion is designed to subjigate, overthrow, convert others. If you don't convert, you become dhimmi, and you can be killed. If you leave Islam you are apostate.

The number of honor killings in the US and Canada is growing. Our campuses are not allowed to have Christian symbols, but we have foot washers and allowed Muslim prayer breaks. We have grocery stores with "non-pork" lanes. And it is getting worse every day. Wake up!

You are just wrong in this case.

No, KSM doesn't look like a... (Below threshold)

No, KSM doesn't look like a chick magnet. But in the Islamic world, he doesn't have to be. Women are chattel. There's no such thing as being a "chick magnet" when "chicks" are slaves.

I join the chorus in rejecting the "peaceful muslim" argument. Islam is founded on evil and all you have to do is read the Quran to understand that. Those friendly muslim neighbors will terrorize you in an instant if we were to become an Islam dominant society.

DJ, all you have to do is r... (Below threshold)

DJ, all you have to do is remember that the vast majority support the actions of a few and that their ultimate goal is to create a Caliphate.

The bottom line is that this man has a prior relationship with the radical Islamic Iman al-Awlaki and terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 and his intent was to kill as many soldiers as he could on his jihad.

Worldwide 30% of muslims be... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Worldwide 30% of muslims believe that suicide bombings are OK. That would be upwards of 500,000,000 people who would blow themselves up for their religion.

What is not measured here is the number of muslims who may disagree with the method but never-the-less support the objective for which the others would kill innocents. My anecdotal experience inclines me to believe that the number who would support the suicide bombers would be over half of the remainder. Muslims are very reluctant to criticize their coreligionists. The readiness with which they will abandon their internal disputes to fight sn external enemy demonstrates how willing they are to set aside their own disagreements and fight toward a common goal.

My estimate is that you've got a billion people willing to blow themselves up and/or willing to help those who are willing to blow themselves up. that is not a tiny fraction hijacking a religion. Heck the half billion willing to blow themselves up is not a tiny fraction.

DJ, we've almost always not... (Below threshold)

DJ, we've almost always not seen eye to eye with your posts, but I had to post to say kudos on a reasoned, rational, and IMHO very correct post.

That is until the second to the last paragraph where you utterly go off the rails.

"Islam likes to play the victim card".

Uh... Islam is an inanimate object. It can't do or not do anything. It's not a "thing" and non-things can't perform actions like playing a card.

"In the Unted States, Islam has always shown that it sensed its place in America as a tolerated segment of the population, rather than a welcome member of the community. "

Let's be real: Americans have ALWAYS struggled with tolerance. Examples:

* The way the Irish were treated in early America
* The extreme racism shown towards Asians in early America
* WWII interment camps
* Jim crow laws
* Whites not being able to marry blacks all that long ago
* Today's "debate" over immigration (i.e. plenty of it flat out racist)
* Extreme racism in places like Mississippi where they literally STILL have segregated bathrooms in gas stations

I was so excited as I read this article to think that perhaps you'd actually written something researched, tempered, and smart, that last bit just convinces me that you were once again setting up a justification of your own personal hang ups with Muslims.

I do agree with the majority of your post though - this guy was a scumbag loser who did something horrible and he represents scumbags not an entire religion.

hyper,1 The only a... (Below threshold)


1 The only attack on Muslims at Ft Hood was shooting a the person who killed 13 others.
Though you have native speakers of Arabic they are not all Muslims.
In fact the DIA has language schools to teach our warfighter s how to speak.

I do think we need to examine any member of the Arm forces in any position of power that express radical view or is sympathetic to our enemies.
This person did not understand Duty, Honor or Country and should have never retained his commission. However because of Americas self delusion he was allowed to advance.

We need to listen to what people like this say and remove them from service.

It is funny though we can paint Wall Street Bankers, Insurance Executives and AIG employees with a broad brush, but talk about militant islam which has core set of principles they share and we must back down.

Let us stop suckling the asp. When someone in the military by their words and or action provides aid and comfort to the enemy. It UCMJ time. Those members are not need in the armed services.

Just like Aryan Nation churches are monitored so should any Mosque.

Hyper I am not asking anything different just let start treating these folks the same.

Let's be real: Ame... (Below threshold)
jim m:
Let's be real: Americans have ALWAYS struggled with tolerance.

While we're flooding the boards with honesty why don't we also admit that in the United States there is more tolerance than you can find ANYWHERE else on earth. That is the reason that for centuries people have striven to come here and begin a new life and achieve success. Despite prejudice and discrimination people are able to overcome these obstacles and attain greater success than in any other nation.

It is despicable that some people can only see the flaws in our country and cannot recognize that it comes closer to achieving a free and fair society than anywhere else. It's unfortunate that some people find the need to continue to blame America for the failures in its past. If held to the same standard Jake would protest that he should not be punished for things done in his youth and that he faced the consequences for his actions years ago. Too bad that Jake and his friends cannot afford the same tolerance for their own country that they demand for themselves. Like most liberals Jake can see the intolerance all around him but somehow is unable to see it in himself. Just another self righteous hypocrite.

(BTW Islam is a religion and not an inanimate object. However, the term Islam can also refer to those who ascribe to that religion and groups of people can act and do things. You were just being obtuse)

DJ, I HAVE read the Koran ... (Below threshold)

DJ, I HAVE read the Koran and there are many verses that promote commendable behavior. The problem is not just the verses that promote the violent overthrow and subjugation of non-Muslim societies but the EXAMPLE Mohammed set for his followers.

Jim m, your last comment is... (Below threshold)

Jim m, your last comment is spot on
Will, also rember that later comments and directives in the koran supersede earlier ones. The prophet got bloodier as he got older!

So many words to say so lit... (Below threshold)
starboardhelm Author Profile Page:

So many words to say so little. Do the self-appointed Muslim spokes-groups pour outrage and codemnation on the head of this villian who murdered innocents in the name of Allah? No. Instead they whine about an imaginary backlash they expect to suffer from non-muslims. You know, things like dirty looks and being served cold coffee. Sorry -- if members of the Islamo-cult want my respect, they'll have to earn it. So far, they're doing it wrong.

You're coming along nicely,... (Below threshold)
Charles Johnson:

You're coming along nicely, DJ. I suggest you start banning the Christianists, creationists and infidels who are disagreeing with you.

"But can Islam, which was... (Below threshold)

"But can Islam, which was founded on political goals as much as religious beliefs, accept a foundation of pure spirituality and ethics?"

# 19 Duane D <... (Below threshold)

# 19 Duane D

This post is Johnsonian, as in LGF.

As I tried to read this post, that was my first thought, too.

Catch the Moral Equivalence Wave. (Pictures of tankers in the bay optional.)

So convoluted as to almost ... (Below threshold)

So convoluted as to almost be unintelligible:

In the United States, Islam has always shown that it sensed its place in America as a tolerated segment of the population, rather than a welcome member of the community. This comes to some degree [riiiight, about .05%] from a certain discomfort with the way Muslims speak and act and dress, but it also comes from Muslims' self-chosen segregation.

IOW, muslims wall themselves off and then wonder why they are alienated. The "I killed my parents and now I'm an orphan" argument.

...but it is important for non-Muslims to recognize that such behavior is anomolous to Islam,

Except, of course, in their own countries, from Africa to Asia. All of which renders your "terrorism" statistics quite silly.

Likewise silly is your attempt to psycho-analyze Islam via Khalid Muhammad.

The attempt fails badly in the face of Osama Bin Laden.

The Big Zero is priceless. ... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

The Big Zero is priceless. He'a angry because he did not get to repeat his Klan-like spewfest. Angry because for all his spite and venom, he can't twist the facts to change the reality of his xenophobia and ignorance.

Go look up 'slander', you loser. I have neither lied nor posted hate. You cannot claim the same.

But it's always easier to spit at someone than face the context of the issue.

.. and for the record, "... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

.. and for the record, "Please explain to me why Muslims should not have the same rights as other Americans?"

Cannot possibly be a lie, as there is no assertion of fact in it. Your screeching reaction, however, certainly confirms I hit a nerve.

But consider all the fine role models you can follow. David Duke, Reverend Wright, Torquemada, why the list is almost endless!

Oh, and lest I forget "Char... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Oh, and lest I forget "Charles Johnson". I have to applaud the irony of pretending that this post, which addresses the need to honestly face the mindless hatred and prejudice, is somehow the problem with regard to attacks and insults, rather than someone unwilling to consider that they are letting their own hatred color their thinking.

Orwell would have applauded your use of DoubleThink.

A vast majority of Musli... (Below threshold)

A vast majority of Muslims are decent people. But there are 100,000,000 who are not.

Nice. Stormfront is that-a-way, you ignorant POS! Bring back a t-shirt for Lou Dobbs and Michael Ledeen while you're there.

Will: what about the example that King David set for his followers? He was a narcissistic serial killer! And yet we don't have these stupid discussions about Jews, because no Jews have coopted their own holy book to promote a murderous terrorist agenda! You can't blame Islam for the actions of a few thousand evil fuckers who happen to be Islamic. If Christianity had triumphed in that region, the same people would most assuredly be citing the Old Testament instead of the Qur'an as justification for their abhorrent actions. It's militant socioeconomic upheaval branded as religious righteousness. Obviously Osama bin Laden's followers are too stupid to realize this, but that's understandable given the quality of education they receive. What the hell is your excuse?

I think this is a great post, DJ. A true Christian would understand and agree with you, instead of frothing at the mouth and acting all betrayed that a conservative writer whom they admire would dare suggest that people ought not condemn over a billion people because of the actions of a few thousand. When the dumbest, most ignorant knuckle-dragging dimwits on the intertubes--i.e., The Big O! and WiddleWanker--flatly disagree with you, then you've probably said something spot-on.

And I'll repeat for the umpteenth time: everyone reading this is way, waaaaaaay more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a terrorist, and you can be damn sure that a drunk driver is not a fundamentalist Islamic radical.

SCSI, I'm pretty sure that the verses in the Qur'an are arranged in order of length, not chronology.

I believe that Islam cann... (Below threshold)

I believe that Islam cannot shed its fundamental flaws that give rise to such acts of violence. However I treasure my own freedom too much to take it away from another.

Hyper,I mean later a... (Below threshold)

I mean later as in later, chronology wise.
What Mohamed said the day before he dies takes precedence over what he said on day 1 of his career as prophet. When they contradict each other, later wins. Like New Testament vs Old, only more so.

I wasn't aware of that, SCS... (Below threshold)

I wasn't aware of that, SCSI. I've been told that the passages in the Qur'an are arranged in order of length (not sure if longest or shortest are first). Quite possible I misunderstood; and it's also possible that the verses are somehow flagged for chronology while still being presented in order of length.

Regardless, I feel pity (at best) for people who base their entire moral and metaphysical worldview on any single book, let alone one with such dubious historical origins.

The Big O!, in other words:... (Below threshold)

The Big O!, in other words:

"Waaah! Waaaaaah! Sure I despise them bacon-hatin' mud people but you're a meanie for not lettin' me smear feces all over your wall."

Great articles, talks about... (Below threshold)

Great articles, talks about the obvious common sense points that seem to be missing from the mainstream media.

I just noticed that most comments in here kept on repeating that 'Muslims were dancing on the streets on 911'; I just would like to say that this is just NOT TRUE!
As a Muslim i used to get upset over every time someone says something like this, for the obvious fact that this never happened. Making statements such as; Muslims, the 1.5 B., celebrated 911 is just stupid, provoking and meant to entice hate against Muslims. Usually statements like these are planted by the media that serve the political interest of Israel. Just start noticing the 'background' of these hate sponsoring outlets and their so called analysts as associating terrorism with Islam seems to serve the apartheid state of Israel and their ethnic cleansing of the people of Palestine, Muslims and Christians.
Anyways, for those who, without malice, think that Muslims did dance, rest assured! This is a lie!. Muslims allover the world were saddened by the incident and that turned pretty quickly into anger towards the media that blamed Islam and all Muslims for it, as if they did it. Muslims everywhere have spoken against radicalism and warned the US to stop its illegal support for Israel.
Finally here is fact about who was dancing that day, and you cam makeup your mind: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html






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Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

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