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Want to piss off a progressive woman?

Show her a survey that suggests the majority of church going women aren't miserable:

It's a recent Barna Group survey of 603 Christian (self-described) women and what they thought of women and leadership in the church.

What he has published so far seems to be fairly provocative -

1. 84% say that their church's perspective on women in ministry is almost identical, very similar, or somewhat similar to their own.

2. 83% say that their Senior Pastor is somewhat, highly or completely supportive of women leading in their church

3. 82% say they can tell by their church's actions that the church values the leadership of women

4. 81% say that their church provides women with the same degree of leadership opportunities as Jesus would.

5. 72% say they possess a lot of spiritual freedom in their life

6. 70% say that the media has little influence on their decision-making

7. 71% say fear is not something they experience ever or often in their life

8. 62% say that ALL leadership roles are open to them in their church.

9. Only 1% say they often struggle with jealousy

10. Among those who feel they are capable of doing more to serve God, and should be doing more, only 4% say that their fear of failure is holding them back from doing more to serve God.

I commented at Jim's blog (where he published this data).  I'm wondering how this survey was taken.  If it was taken on paper (either virtual or literal) or by phone that would give different results ... especially when dealing with a group of women.   I think that this is incredibly revealing of how the church has become a system of brain-washing rather than God's Kingdom revealed tiny piece by tiny piece. Because the Kingdom of Heaven is not about men or women or leadership.  Or who will be first.  It's about who will be last.  It's about finding the lost sheep, the lost penny; giving away your wrap when someone needs a shirt; enabling someone to care for others when at first they can barely care for themselves; it's about spreading the Love Divine around, not keeping it for yourself.

It made me angry to read these statistics.  It made me angry, not just for the women ... but for all the people involved in those churches.  They are losing out.  This is not the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus talked about in the Sermon on the Mount, or as he walked with his disciples or at any time.  Would even Peter, or John the beloved disciple be able to answer these questions so affirmatively?  How about Mary Magdalene?  Good grief, if even the disciples struggled with jealousy why on earth can only 6 women out 603 acknowledge it?  Perhaps it was the word, often, that threw them off.  Maybe they decided that they could deny that jealousy was something that strolled in and regularly did battle in their hearts.  I know I will stand up and say that I am jealous all the time.  It doesn't make me mean anymore, but acknowledging it to myself and being able to laugh at it has made it easier.

Then this report made me sad.  The kind of sad that aches in my bones.  Because when I look at it I see poverty.  The church in North America (like the US) may have a lot of money.  It may have a lot of stuff.  We may also have a lot of people for all I know.  But we are starving to death.  Emaciated and dying for lack of food, water and oxygen.  Worse, we are doing it to ourselves.  With a huge smile on our faces.  We are a people with anorexia or bulemia.  When we look in the mirror we see fat and happy, but the reality is we are starving.  Dying.

In the end, we can know a lot of stuff about the Bible.  We can even know a lot of stuff about God and Jesus.  But if we do not have love ... love enough to be honest with ourselves and our neighbors and our communities, then we are nothing but a clanging gong.

So to this progressive woman... love is all about being miserable...  and only if women are miserable, are they good Christians...


What am I missing here... after all, I'm a neanderthal man...

Perhaps some of you women out there can enlighten me.

Here's what I left over there (I'm pretty sure it'll be deleted):

Umm... maybe... these women aren't anywhere near as miserable as progressive women think they ought to be... or as miserable as progressive women are.


And that just pisses progressive women off.


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Comments (20)

I'm not "angered" by these ... (Below threshold)

I'm not "angered" by these results, just completely puzzled.

Only one percent of the women Barna surveyed struggle with jealousy? ONE PERCENT? And only 3 out of 10 of them routinely experience fear?

Evangelicals (I'm assuming this is who Barna surveyed) have a divorce rate comparable to the average divorce rate in America, ~50%, and yet only 1% of these women ever struggle with jealousy? Unbelievable.

Something's wrong. I think "brainwashing" is appropriate. Probably induced by overexposure to the phony-baloney happiness and prosperity Gospel that is peddled via megachurch-variety good time rock-n-roll theology and Christian self-help books.

The Wookie does not approv... (Below threshold)

The Wookie does not approve of this message!!

Want to piss off a... (Below threshold)
Jay Guevara:
Want to piss off a progressive woman?

Why bestir yourself? They were born pissed off, and took it from there.

'Progressive' women are by ... (Below threshold)

'Progressive' women are by definition pissed off, miserable, angry, sour, jealous, and just generally mad at everything and anything under the sun. The only thing that makes 'progressive' women happy is making others just as unhappy as they themselves are.

"The only thing that mak... (Below threshold)

"The only thing that makes 'progressive' women happy is making others just as unhappy as they themselves are."

So thats why Michelle stated She was finally proud of Her country?

We all get to share in Her misery.

this is not brainwashing an... (Below threshold)
jim m:

this is not brainwashing and you only show your prejudice by saying so.

What this is is a survey demonstrating the obvious:

1) Christian women tend to believe most of the things that their church espouses. Note that far more said that their pastor was supportive of women in leadership positions but only 62% said that ALL leadership positions were available to them. This can only mean that they agree that women should not be allowed to have those positions on religious grounds.

2) that they are conservative in that they do not look to the media for their marching orders.

3) that they are otherwise normal and are not governed by fear.

and 4) the question on jealousy is oddly worded allowing the interpretation that while they experience jealousy they do not "struggle" with it. DO you "struggle" with jealousy? Does it occupy your thoughts daily distorting your perceptions of others and affecting your actions? Of course not. Neither do they. Normal people do not lead lives consumed with fear or jealousy why should we expect these women to be different?

Why this would piss off a progressive(and apparently the non-Christian here at Wizbang) is that they are not offended by the Christian viewpoint and they are not some mousy thing that is stuck in a soul crushing marriage to some dim witted religious fanatic.

Really Rick, when did you start channeling Lee Ward?

Oh, and yes Christians get ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Oh, and yes Christians get divorced in pretty much the same rate as non-Christians, but why should that mean that they should be consumed with jealousy when non-Christians aren't?

Infidelity is not the leading cause of divorce. It is actually financial stress. In my case it was that I could no longer take living with someone who was seriously mentally ill. You try it for over a decade and a half.

Probably the biggest contributor to the divorce of Christians is the church's utter inability to counsel people with marital problems. "God hates divorce" only goes so far but it is, unfortunately, the main focal point of their counseling.

The only thing tha... (Below threshold)
Jay Guevara:
The only thing that makes 'progressive' women happy is making others just as unhappy as they themselves are.

Actually, nothing makes them actually happy. Some things - such as that above, or seeing a piano fall on a patriotic American - makes them differentially less unhappy. Even in the piano scenario, they'd still be bitching that the piano hadn't fallen on two patriotic Americans, but only one.

" Progressive woman" is an ... (Below threshold)
Elroy Jetson:

" Progressive woman" is an oxymoron. And the woman who wrote that incoherent rant is a moron!

"Want to piss off a prog... (Below threshold)

"Want to piss off a progressive woman?"

Tell Her You voted for Booooosh, Tax cuts are desirable, Thier right to choose is in another mans hands and Stedman is really a transvestite in remission.

Infidelity is not the leadi... (Below threshold)

Infidelity is not the leading cause of divorce. It is actually financial stress. In my case it was that I could no longer take living with someone who was seriously mentally ill. You try it for over a decade and a half

I have and still am for about 18 years now. Best wishes...


Really Rick, w... (Below threshold)
Really Rick, when did you start channeling Lee Ward?


Ask Rev Lee Ward Wright why... (Below threshold)
retired military:

Ask Rev Lee Ward Wright why progressive women are so miserable. After all he is one.

I'm not sure this lack of j... (Below threshold)

I'm not sure this lack of jealousy or fear is a particularly Christian thing. I'm not Christian, yet, I can't remember the last time I experienced jealousy. Jealousy of another woman? Nope. Jealousy that someone else has more than I? Nope. And fear? What am I supposed to be fearing? Other than being in a situation where my life could be in danger, fear is not something I experience with any regularity at all either.

No. I think it has to do more with one's view of life in general.

Islam, on the other hand, w... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:

Islam, on the other hand, with FGM, ownership of women mentality, one-sided justice, covering from head to toe, deprivation of education or place in society, and regular beatings -- if not stonings -- doesn't really piss progressives off at all. In fact, they bend over backwards to placate Islam. Now THAT is one helluva sad testament.

It's been my experience (ad... (Below threshold)

It's been my experience (admittedly, a limited sample of 5...) that 'Progressive' women are indeed spring-loaded to the "Pissed Off" position. And they don't understand why YOU aren't pissed off at the same things they're pissed about. And then they get pissed at YOU because YOU aren't pissed.

That YOU aren't pissed means that you're not sufficiently socially and morally evolved.

Let's see. The first one was pissed about America's treatment of Native Americans in the late 1800s. (Not a damn thing that could be done about it, but it was a handy issue.)

Then there was the one who was dead-set against GM foods. (Frankenfoods! Teh Eevil!)

Atmospheric issues consumed the third, and the 4th went for transportation issues.

The 5th was a PhD candidate in "Theology and Personality". She simmered in a low-level pissed off state about humanity in general, how horrible conservatives were, and how whenever a woman accused a man of rape and harassment the accusations were automatically true (IE Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill) but oddly enough found all the rape/harassment charges against Clinton to be obviously false and ridiculous.

Yeah, well... consistent applications of behavioral standards? Not so much...

And then I started to think - just WHY did I find these women so attractive? Didn't end up with any good reason, (and several bad ones that were rather embarrasing) so 'progressive' became something that I decided to avoid.

Then I met a woman who wasn't 'progressive', and we clicked. That was 18 years ago, and we'll have our 17th anniversary in a couple of months.

You know that saying - "Opposites attract"? Perhaps for a time - but then they repel.

My first thought was to go ... (Below threshold)

My first thought was to go look at the info gathering techniques. If the responders had any doubts if their answers would remain anonymous, the data would be skewed. However, the links indicated that the results and stuff would not be available until 2011.

My second thought was to examine the data gathering organization itself. It is truly a challenge for folk asking questions in interviews and interpreting replies to avoid affecting the data ("tainting it"). This is a major reason for out-sourcing surveys to independent third-parties.

Here is how the Barna Group defines itself on its own website:

"When Barna Group started in 1984, the idea of a research firm devoted primarily to the exploration of faith and spirituality was groundbreaking. In fact, George Barna coined the term theolographics™ to describe the faith variables of belief, activity, affiliation and identity."

So, the inference I draw is that the Barna folk strongly believe that faith profoundly improves people and their everyday lives. Could that have "bled over" into their data collection, e.g., how Qs were asked? How initial answers were received (smiles, head nods of affirmation, etc.)?

Maybe they rigorously preserved all neutral behaviors, but I always distrust data gathered by an advocacy group that massively supports precisely the positions of that same advocacy group.

@JLawsonLOL!... (Below threshold)
Jeff Blogworthy:



Is it possible that because... (Below threshold)

Is it possible that because Christian women are not self-focused but rather outwardly-focused there is every reason that they are happier than the progressive females who tend to lack a sense of humor or a happy heart? I'm sorry, I find progressive women to be hopelessly dreary. When you are solely focused on your perceived grievances and hurts, you cannot proceed through life with joy as I find myself doing on a daily basis. Yes, there are problems in my life as there are in EVERY life, but I find that directing my attention to the needs and wants of others tends to make my own small woes seem irrelevant!

In addition, what you are within yourself is often reflected on the outside of yourself, which may account for the fact that so many "progressive" women are just plain ugly! Including the Wookie! Ugly is as ugly does, my friends!

I diagree with number 9. </... (Below threshold)

I diagree with number 9.

Check out my blog, its about Christians who suffer from an eating disorder.







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