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Koran burning church linked to Westboro Baptist

All the more reason to stand against the event planned for 9/11 this year:

Cults tend to be very upfront about the bulk of their beliefs. There are some special bits of knowledge that you will only gain on the inside, and some of those insider tidbits can be nasty indeed, but mostly they'll gladly tell you what they believe, and why you should believe it. Once that meant selling cassettes and getting newsletter subscriptions if you were a small operation. These days it means a web siteFacebook, your own You Tube channel, and podcasts for both your sermons and something called "The Braveheart Show." You even have your own Blog, and that's where I found the smoking gun:

On Sunday April 18, Westboro Baptist Church came to Gainesville. One of their stops was a liberal "Open doors, open hearts, open minds," church near us, so we took part of our Sunday Service time and went as a church to stand with them.

The full blog post pulled up last night, but seems hard to get to today, possibly because of blog traffic. The Google cache is here. Is the opening paragraph out of context? You judge:

We have also learned that when you speak out about what God hates, you will be hated. We do not agree with all of Westboro's methods, but we admire their determination to find radical ways to preach the truth of the Bible, as we do. Most churches and Pastors in America try to stand on neutral ground. They are lost, weak and sick and need to repent.

The parallels between this event and the Ground Zero Mosque are pretty obvious... the right to do what is desired exists beyond a reasonable doubt in either case but whether or not it's the right and decent thing to do is the bigger question.

And who the parties are linking arms with is also relevant.

As we learn more about this church in Florida, we learn more about why it is we should stand against their planned event.

Decency calls for them to stand down on the Koran burning.


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Comments (19)

Westboro? (Shudder.)... (Below threshold)

Westboro? (Shudder.)

"Decency calls for them to stand down on the Koran burning."

Sure... but it's still their right. As it's the right of the Westboro folks to do what they do.

Maybe... some good will come of this. Don't know how, or what, but God works in mysterious ways.

(That I ever got married is proof of that!)

As it appears this "pastor"... (Below threshold)
Upset Old Guy:

As it appears this "pastor" admires Westboro, hoping for him to do the good and decent thing about his koran burning project is futile.

I revel in the knowledge that I neither know the man or am related to him.

"Decency calls for them to ... (Below threshold)

"Decency calls for them to stand down ...."

Odd, that sentiment could work BOTH ways.

They should have burned the... (Below threshold)

They should have burned them at thier own little gathering and nobody would know or care except them. Now this bs is all hyped and publicity driven for politics, money, ego trip or whatever. And the biggest powertrip will be the one the islamos will be on after this.

Ya, this pastor has the rig... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

Ya, this pastor has the right to free speech, and the right to freedom of expression. And that's a fundamental political right that many people around the world do not have. Like the people who live under the Saudi regime, for example. Or the people who live under the extremist-in-chief in Iran. I think that's good to keep in mind when we start talking about political speech and political freedom. Not everyone has it.

But here's the interesting thing about this assh*le here in the US who wants to burn books to make his political points. While I am a firm supporter of his right to speak and act freely, I'll be damned if I stand by silent while he does something that I think is deplorable.

I am 100 percent opposed to what this "pastor" is doing. I'm more of a fan of "lead by example" rather than "well, if you're going take things to that level then I am too." Sometimes we should just do what's right rather than keep playing petty political games.

Odd, that sentimen... (Below threshold)
ryan a:
Odd, that sentiment could work BOTH ways.

Agreed. Completely. It SHOULD.

Westboro? (Shudder... (Below threshold)
Westboro? (Shudder.)

"Decency calls for them to stand down on the Koran burning."

Sure... but it's still their right. As it's the right of the Westboro folks to do what they do.

Absolutely. But decent people wouldn't, and the Westboro bunch is about as indecent as they come. Not to mention fundamentally irrational.

One wonders about our liberal trolling buddies on this one. As recently as two weeks ago they were making arguments aggressively defending the 9/11 mosque and swerving close to making the argument that if you have a right to do something, you should be encouraged to exercise it. Logically, then, they should be jumping up and defending the Koran burning (and Koran Toilet paper, Koran flushing, etc). Wonder why not?

My guess is they will be among the missing until someone wants to burn an American flag...

"One wonders about our libe... (Below threshold)
ryan a:

"One wonders about our liberal trolling buddies on this one..."

You called? Sorry for being late to the party. I was just browsing through my new Michael Moore diet book, "Eating Liberally." It won't happen again. Apologies.

Insert leftist ideological talking points that make me get all kinds of negative votes here: __________.

There are plans circulating... (Below threshold)

There are plans circulating online to sneak in a bunch of Arabic-language Bibles. There are even tentative plans to get the pastor to hold one up (for the TV news) by having someone military (or dressed military) say they took it off a militant's body in Afghanistan.

There are so many ways this could go very badly.

Ryan -Think you've... (Below threshold)

Ryan -

Think you've outgrown the troll stage, man... sorry to tell you that, I know you've been cherishing your delusions of trollhood - but once you actually start conversing with the 'enemy' as if they were rational human beings, the troll veneer just sloughs off.


I hold no bill for these pe... (Below threshold)
jim m:

I hold no bill for these people in Gainesville. And while I don't particularly care for book burnings (they might have really meant something in a pre-digital age but today the dissemination of information is so efficient that burning a book is nothing more than symbolism), I also really don't give a damn about the hypersensitivities of muslims. They need to learn to be tolerant and when they stop threatening to cut off people's heads people will be less likely to go out of their way to offend them. Most of us learn as children that the kids that respond most to teasing get teased the most.

So what does a book burning mean in today's world? A century ago it could mean the destruction of thought and learning. Today not so much. Does anyone seriously believe that by burning any published work that we could suppress the ideas contained therein? The very notion that such is the case is laughable.

Book burning today is a demonstration of disgust and hate toward the ideas or the author. Many of the arguments against book burning that were once quite valid are no longer functional. Information travels so rapidly and gets stored in such a disseminated fashion as to make burning a book a futile exercise if that is the intent.

While people may be horrified by the idea of a book burning I just cannot get so exercised by it. I love books. I value learning. This has nothing to do with either.

I find it very inter... (Below threshold)

I find it very interesting that Obama and liberals in general have expressed in a very strong and forceful way that the builders of the mosque near Ground Zero have the right to do what they were doing - even to the extent that some claimed the opposition were bigots. So why are they defending their rights and not the rights of this pastor and his church? We certainly aren't seeing Obama defending this particular US citizen and his ability to exercise his right of free speech and expression. Why the distinction between the two issues? Fundamentally, we are really talking about the same thing: the act of offending a particular group of people is the issue but apparently in this case offending Muslims is a greater concern than it is defending the sensitivities of people who lost family and friends on 9/11.

Now why is that? I hate to put it this way but if this mosque gets built I seriously doubt that any of these people who are 9/11 survivors or those who lost loved ones that day are going to engage in vigilante justice as a result. But what probably will happen is that an act of violence will be perpetrated by a Muslim extermist somewhere in the world and more than likely the victim will not have had anything to do with the burning of the Koran that looks like will take place on Saturday. So the thinking apparently is we must live in fear of Islam and not offend its believers in any way lest they decide to kill us. I am not sure it is possible for them to hate us anymore because it is our lifestyle and culture that are the biggest reasons why they hate the civilized world. At what point will there be calls to change the way we live our lives so we don't provoke them further? At some point we need to stop the political correctness and the giving up of rights in the hope these barbarians will leave us alone. They will not so there is no point in ceasing to be Americans.

Muslims certainly don't want to be painted with a broad brush. They say the terrorist acts of 9/11 were not done by true belivers of Islam but at the same time they are more than willing to make the leap on their own that the acts of this pastor reflects the view of all Americans thus we all should die as a result. I would not burn a Koran - that is just not my way. I think the pastor (like the mosque builders) have a right to do what they want but that does not make it RIGHT to do it.

I ran across this link to t... (Below threshold)

I ran across this link to the Westboro church a week ago. What has had me wondering is if the Florida church is aligned with the left like the Westboro church? I'd find it interesting, and a bit of a repeating of history, if we found out that the Florida church are Progressive liberals following in the footsteps of their Progressive for-rulers from the early 1900s. Gotta live the insanity from the Christian left.

You people have it all wron... (Below threshold)

You people have it all wrong! It's art! Like when they put the bible in a vat of pee or defecate on it. Or when they burn the flag to show freedom of speech! The Religion of peace, which has doctrines that are almost exactly the same as our constitution( Which the moderate Muslims and the Left keep telling us) will not only embrace us for this , but will insist that we are doing the right thing.
Will this make those people trying to kill our soldiers mad at us? (That question was what I like to call a reality check).
If these Muslim countries are upset, then how about we leave? (We should have figure that out after spending decades and precious American lives trying to save Muslims from themselves, with them fighting us tooth and nail, that they are hopeless and ungrateful.)

I say let it burn. It's time to start carrying a big stick again and remind everyone that freedom of speech is a double edged sword. We let our edge get dull and rusty. So when we start burning Korans we should heat the blades and hone them. We must stand up to Islam. If not we had better get used to kneeling.

God will make something pos... (Below threshold)

God will make something positive out of this. I have no doubt.

I don't think the pastor is hateful as much as he is frustrated. We live in a country where artists have shit on the work of God and called it art. The crucifix was sealed in a jar full of piss and called "Piss Christ". We, Christians were told to accept the right of artists to do this and we should be grateful we live in a country that allows it. The muslims killed 3000+ americans on 9/11. We as a people did not overreact and start killing muslims and such. What did we get for that restraint, groups like FAIR stating we are Islamophobes, our government going many extra steps to keep from "offending" a group of people who are offended at everything non Islam. I cannot where a mask when I have my drivers license renewed, but Muslims demand that their women be allowed to, etc. All the while, the US Government burned bibles in Afghanistan last year so as to not offend the muslims. The double standard is absolutely amazing. So, if this pastor is frustrated, I can understand that. He is misguided, but I understand his frustration. Rest assured, God will make good of this. Maybe our television shows and movies will quit depicting Christians as evil people who are prudes and intolerant when we see Islam, the most intolerant faith I have ever seen being treated gently.

Like Denis Miller said, "Muslims will declare jihad if their pizza toppings are wrong." Right on the money there. ww

Rick you are beating your h... (Below threshold)
Jeff L:

Rick you are beating your head against a brick wall here. Your original post on this topic "Petraeus is right" got 98 comments and the majority of them are in complete disagreement with your ideas.


Jay tea had another opinion "burn baby burn" and got 65 comments on his post. It's pretty obvious that the overwhelming majority of the comments on this issue are in overwhelming support of the proposed Koran burning. The only way to change opinions about this would be if Obama came out in favor of the burnings. That would change opinions around here quick.


Actually Jeff L., you could... (Below threshold)

Actually Jeff L., you couldn't be more wrong. We were consistant in that he, the pastor, has the right to burn them to express his views as the same view of the mosque. I do not believe our troops would be any further danger then the one their in now. ww

Give me a break WW....go ba... (Below threshold)
Jeff L:

Give me a break WW....go back and read the posts from the previous posts I mentioned.

Jeff L,You are see... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Jeff L,

You are seeing what you want to see in those comments as opposed to what is actually there.

And if you think that opinion here is just a reflexive action opposite to whatever Obama does, you are even more deluded than some of the regular trolls around here.






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