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Tucson Shooting: Latest Update

OK, we have a bit more info on the Tuscon shooting:

Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford survived the shooting, is out of surgery, and is expected to "recover." No one is saying "recover fully."

Her husband, Navy Captain Mark Kelly, is an astronaut who flew on two shuttle missions.

Also attending the event was federal Judge John Roll, who was shot and killed. An as-yet unidentified nine-year-old girl was also killed. Three others were also apparently killed,

The suspected gunman is a 21-year-old white male, currently in custody. Initial VERY UNCONFIRMED reports say he was a military recruit, and from what I've seen and heard, a general nutjob who was against everything. (My initial theory linking the shooting to Mexican drug cartels is pretty much toast at this point.)

The suspect used an automatic weapon in the attack. Automatic weapons are, for all intents and purposes, already illegal, and notoriously difficult to conceal, so discussions on "banning these kinds of guns" or "this is what you get for having concealed-carry laws" are pointless.

One of the leading local TV stations covering the story goes by the call letters KGUN. Someone at that station is most likely feeling incredibly self-conscious.

My initial theory was based on the use of automatic weapons, reports of a possible second gunman, the targeting of a government official, and the proximity to the Mexican border. My newer theory is this guy was a complete psycho, not a political ideologue; he didn't exclusively target the Congresswoman or the judge, but was shooting any and all present.

The suspect is in custody, apparently unwounded.

Update: what I should have said from the outset is something I've said before, but let myself forget:

Crazy people do crazy things for crazy reasons. And self-censoring to avoid giving the crazies their excuse is futile; they'll find something to set themselves off.


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Comments (61)

I believe this is the shoot... (Below threshold)

I believe this is the shooters youtube postings.
I'm not sure how long it will remain up.

Jared Lee Loughner Classitup10's Channel



This guy was nuts.... (Below threshold)
jim m:

This guy was nuts.

Those who jumped to accusing their political opponents should be ashamed. I'm not holding my breath for apologies.

"The suspect used an automa... (Below threshold)

"The suspect used an automatic weapon in the attack."

Where did you get that info?

As for Arizona, it is LEGAL to own a full auto weapon there as long as you've purchased the tax stamps to do so.

Garand, I know automatic we... (Below threshold)

Garand, I know automatic weapons are technically legal, but incredibly difficult to legally obtain. I should have spelled that out more carefully -- I strongly suspect that he did not legally possess the weapon.

And I've heard it was an automatic weapon from several accounts -- Fox News said so. But now Fox says it was a pistol, but that just seems too improbable for that many shot that quickly by one gunman.


His YouTube postings smell ... (Below threshold)

His YouTube postings smell like schizophrenia. He uses logical syllogisms with symbolic phrases like "new currency" and "mind control" that are obviously of paramount importance to him, but which end up being mundanely revolutionary and anti-federalist. He'll probably just get shut up in a mental institution for being nutso.

It's a tragedy that in this world, little girls are killed as collateral damage by a nutjob, whose views are vaguely influenced by people I respect and admire.

"Automatic weapon" when use... (Below threshold)

"Automatic weapon" when used by the Lamestream Media almost always means "semi-automatic" (i.e., common and legal) weapon. Most of the media elite wouldn't know a Glock 30 from a turkey baster.

Hotair has posted a link to... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Hotair has posted a link to this nut job's video manifesto. I defy anyone to look at that and come away with anything but the conclusion that this guy is not discernibly right or left but that he is very clearly disturbed.


Looking at the videos I can... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Looking at the videos I can only conclude that he is seriously unhinged. He seems to think that reality is really a dream state and that he controls reality by deciding what he wants it to be. It's not clear that he understands the difference between the real world and the world of imagination.

I would guess that this guy will get an insanity defense. It might even be justified in this case.

"But now Fox says it was a ... (Below threshold)

"But now Fox says it was a pistol, but that just seems too improbable for that many shot that quickly by one gunman."

JT - when you're just pulling the trigger on a semi-auto, you'd be surprised how fast you can expend a 15 round magazine. It's not called "spraying" for nothing.

The MSM and their 'multiple layers of fact checking' wouldn't know a semi-auto from full-auto if it walked up and bit them on the ass.

"...he controls reality by ... (Below threshold)

"...he controls reality by deciding what he wants it to be."

Whoa! Sounds like Barry and Nancy! Facts are what they say they are.

Many were saying that this ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Many were saying that this schmuck was an afghan vet. It turns out that he claimed to be a recruit at the MEPS. That means that he wasn't in the military but wanted to get in. I would not be surprised to learn that they turned him down.

Once again not waiting to hear the apologies from the dems and lefties that leaped to the conclusion that it must have been a disturbed war vet.

So it seems fixer would've ... (Below threshold)

So it seems fixer would've lost his morbid "gentleman's" bet had I been as morally vapid as him and taken him up on it.

My detective software backg... (Below threshold)
Paul Hooson:

My detective software background check notes a previous arrest of the suspect for possession of drug paraphernalia. That's a really good combination, drugs and automatic weapons.

Nothing can possibly go wrong there,huh?

HIs friends called him left... (Below threshold)
jim m:

HIs friends called him leftwing.


No apologies yet from Paul Krugman at the NYT who said online that it was a politically motivated hit.

I had ABC News on just to s... (Below threshold)

I had ABC News on just to see how those libtards would react-Guess what-they just slipped in the statement from someone who was asked "did she have any enemies to your knowledge?" They replied-"just every member of the Tea Party." Then they casually mentioned the Sarah Palin target map, which, I assume will bear the brunt of this unbiased investigation launched from behind the anchor desk. Do these clowns still think their words go unchallenged? It's a new day pinheads-We don't need you telling us news we heard about 5 hours earlier and also giving us your learned interpretation of what we've already seen and know. Give it just a couple of years and you and your J-School "education" will be pushing a hot dog cart. Ever heard of "the Emperor's New Clothes?" You're wearing them.

dlsada,Someone onc... (Below threshold)
jim m:


Someone once said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Not that the left lives by that motto. Oh, wait they do. Never mind.

Our lefty friends sure have... (Below threshold)

Our lefty friends sure have gotten quiet after all these new revelations about the shooter. They were so damned sure that he was a violent right-wing Tea Party kook.

Just as I suspected he trie... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Just as I suspected he tried to enlist and the Army rejected him. Don;t expect the media and their lefty friends to retract the crap they said about him being an Afghan war vet.

Odd that the lefties castig... (Below threshold)

Odd that the lefties castigate Palin for her "target" list, yet remain silent on Barry's comment about an 'knowing your enemies'.

Watching the news this evening, featuring Clarence Dupnik, Pima County Sheriff, who blames the violence on political culture. He says Arizona is "mecca of prejudice or bigotry". But then he's the same guy who 'has problems with immigration enforcement'. A prime 74 year old asshole. He likes being in front of the camera answering questions. He's favorite phrase is "I don't know". Now some of the questions being asked by the press are just plain stupid, but others are relevant - and would be some of the first information that any COMPETENT officer would gather at a crime scene - yet Clarence "doesn't know".

I visit Pima County about once every two months for about 2 weeks. The people I know in Tucson still can't figure out how this asshole gets reelected. He's not a "cop", he's a politician.

This fruit loop is a die ha... (Below threshold)

This fruit loop is a die hard:


Hi all: I'm a member of NAM... (Below threshold)

Hi all: I'm a member of NAMI, National Alliance of Mental Illness. If it is found that this person has schizophrenia or another mental illness such as bipolar, there should be an understanding that this is the illness not the person. This is not to condone his actions but to realize that people who have a mental illness are not always in control of their actions. Keep him and his family and his victims in your prayers. This is a terrible thing. Help in not promoting the stigma or misunderstanding of what mental illness is. Visit www. nami.org for more info.

the pathetic Left is determ... (Below threshold)

the pathetic Left is determined to use THIS as their Reichstag Fire!!

By the end of the weekend the howls from the media to shut down TalkRadio...and arrest Sarah Palin.

Sharon,Having live... (Below threshold)
jim m:


Having lived with someone who was mentally ill for many years I understand what you are saying. I think that most here understand the distinction even though sometimes it is difficult to keep that in sight.

Having looked at this young man's YouTube videos etc it is clear to me that his thinking was very disturbed. The question remains whether he still understood that what he did is wrong. If he did have that understanding he would remain legally culpable for his actions.

"The question remains wheth... (Below threshold)

"The question remains whether he still understood that what he did is wrong. If he did have that understanding he would remain legally culpable for his actions."

The suspect said it all when he told those who tackled him "let me go! - as he tried to flee the scene". He knew what he was doing.

Sharon we all have sympathy... (Below threshold)

Sharon we all have sympathy for those who are mentally ill or unstable. That being said, it's almost impossible to have compassion for someone's state of mind when that person has just executed a nine year old girl and turned countless lives upside down.

Sure, mentally ill individuals can't help their condition. But keep in mind, most mentally ill people don't commit mass murder.

I see that the fat pony-tai... (Below threshold)

I see that the fat pony-tailed loser at LGF is blaming this on right-wing violence/incitement. So Gifford is a "blue-dog" Democrat and among the murderers favorite books are The Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf. Yeah, that's right-wing. That blogger is a disgusting classless POS.

People still read LGF? I d... (Below threshold)
jim m:

People still read LGF? I didn't realize that blog was still up.

Anyway, I would file that along with Paul Krugman's NYT posting and others under the "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

The left will use this as much as they can. We have already seen the lefty Sheriff of Pima Co say that this was all due to talk radio. The left will do what they always do and just amp up the volume to drown out the facts.

I just contrast the lefty media and politicians who are jumping n this tragedy to advance their agenda before the bodies are cold to the statement from John McCain:

"I pray for Gabby and the other victims, and for the repose of the souls of the dead and comfort for their families. I beg our loving Creator to spare the lives of those who are still alive, heal them in body and spirit, and return them to their loved ones. Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race, and they deserve and will receive the contempt of all decent people and the strongest punishment of the law."

I don't particularly agree with McCain on a lot of things but his and the GOP response to this tragedy in general has been right on. I wish I could say the same for everyone on the left.

Sharon-I share your concern... (Below threshold)
Barry Sotero:

Sharon-I share your concerns-I have suffered with bi-polar disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, oppositional-defiant disorder, nicotine and cocaine addiction. Can't wait for my free health care.

Yes, the man was an obvious... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Yes, the man was an obvious whack-job, but the climate and state, in which he operated in, is one in which, he could go out and legally buy a gun to exercise what some, of our leaders, who should know better, have uncritically called second amendment remedies to a unresponsive Congress, (to them).

You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out.

So Stevie, the "climate" in... (Below threshold)

So Stevie, the "climate" in that particular state lends itself to such actions?

Guess that explains the whack job in Kalifornia who shot Moscone and Milk?

1) freedom comes with respo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

1) freedom comes with responsibility. If we want freedom then we take the risk that others will not use their freedom responsibly.

2) It appears that he purchased his gun legally. We already have a lot of gun laws. He had not been convicted of a felony. He had not been diagnosed with a mental illness (although clearly he should have been). What would you suggest? Allow gun ownership to be at the whim of the local authority? Not a good solution.

3) the failure here is to identify ad get this kid some help. He was obviously mentally disturbed. Where were the people in his life? Where was his family? Where was the school that barred him from class?

We have laws that restrict the mentally ill from owning or possessing guns. We have laws against felons owning guns. What we don't have is people who are willing to be responsible for doing something about people who desperately need help from mental illness.

The failure here is not of gun control laws,it is in people being willing to help someone who really needed intervention.

I think I am getting... (Below threshold)
gnossoss papadopolis:

I think I am getting the general feeling here that the 24 hour a day hate talk on radio and Fox News had, of course, no relevance in this tragedy. That the death threats and attacks on this congresswoman's and representative Grijalva's offices were coincidence? The violence at the town hall meetings was coincidence? The people carrying guns to rallies was coincidence? The man captured on the way to kill people at the Tides Foundation was coincidence? The shooter at the Holocaust Museum was coincidence? That a never ending stream of hate and violence and paranoia on conservative media did, in no way, influence this sick man? The murder of Dr. Tiller is unrelated? All of this violence just happens?

Garandfan,You forg... (Below threshold)
jim m:


You forgot the nutcase that shot John Lennon in NYC where they want to deny people their 2nd amendment rights if they have ever been fired from a job, have debt, or traffic violations.

Steve is just another sick lefty wanting to advance his agenda on the not yet cold bodies of the victims. He wants to blame so BS climate of hostility for the actions of someone who is obviously mentally ill and ignores that similar incidents have occurred elsewhere without this so-called "climate".

Steve, why don't you take your ghoulish comments to Kos where they will be appreciated? Or maybe you could go picket the funerals of the dead. Not much difference in what you are doing here.

Garand fan, it could happen... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

Garand fan, it could happen anywhere but there has been a documented history of violence/vandalism and threats to a few Democratic congressmen and women, including Gifford in Arizona, in the last year or so, more than in any other state, I believe. I think it may have been a contributing factor. I guess we will know, soon enough.

I think the shooter was mot... (Below threshold)

I think the shooter was motivated by Karl Marx, Paul Krugman and Keith Olbermann. A typical leftist.

Steve,How about th... (Below threshold)


How about the bullet through Eric Cantor's office?

Well jackass then please ex... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Well jackass then please explain the Discovery Channel hostage taker. Explain the leftists that assaulted the couple in NO. Explain this leftist jerk, who is described by his classmates as a lefty and who lists the communist manifesto as one of his favorite books.

Maybe you could explain obama's violent rhetoric demanding that his followers hit back harder and make their enemies pay? Why is it that political violence over the last year has been almost exclusively from the left and virtually nothing from the right? Why is it that leftists need to go to town halls to assault peaceful protesters like Gaffney?

You leftists attempting to make this into a political issue make me sick. This punk was a lefty but he did this because he was nuts. Explain why a lefty punk goes out and shoots a dem politician.


Steve go follow he news. It... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Steve go follow he news. It has been thoroughly presented that this kid was off his rocker. If you can't be bothered to inform yourself by looking at his YouTube videos then STFU.

Don't bother, Steve has his... (Below threshold)

Don't bother, Steve has his own reality, just like this nutjob.

A lefty disappointed by his... (Below threshold)

A lefty disappointed by his communist rulers blows a gasket.

And for all the lefties bit... (Below threshold)
jim m:

And for all the lefties bitching about Palin's campaign ad I would love to hear them respond to why the never said anything about Craig Kilborn putting crosshairs on President Bush's head and running the script "snipers wanted"

I guess that leftist hate speech is protected.

The Tuscon Chief of police ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

The Tuscon Chief of police who is investigating the murders said he is exploring whether there is connection between the threats to Giffords and the shooter, who may have had a accomplice, or don't you should feel he should be investigating that?

How much violent rhetoric w... (Below threshold)

How much violent rhetoric was directed at GWB by liberals? Tons, and it was well-documented by Michelle Malkin and others.

Steve, there is a differenc... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Steve, there is a difference between the shooter having made threats and political rhetoric. The violence and eliminationist rhetoric from the left has if anything been far worse from the left over the last few years. I don't recall anyone at the Dem convention attacking buses of delegate, much less going to prison for the same as did several leftists who attacked buses at the GOP convention in 2008.

For all the sick, disgusting leftists who think this was politically motivated please explain why he killed the 9YO girl.

A politically motivated killing would have just been the congresswoman and maybe some of her staff. This guy was indiscriminate.

You lefties are not even willing to think this through before making your bogus accusations.

I think this was a hit orde... (Below threshold)

I think this was a hit ordered by La Raza, for Giffords' stance on border security.

No evidence for that assertion, but then, who needs evidence?

And Steve, who is to blame for the bullet through Eric cantor's office? Black Panther? Acorn?

“If they bring a knife to t... (Below threshold)
jim m:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

Barack Obama
April 2008

Described by his friends as leftist, maybe he went after the blue dog democrat because she wasn't far left enough. Obama is the one explicitly exhorting his followers to go kill people.

But this guy was not politically motivated. He was just crazy.

For all the lefties bitchin... (Below threshold)
jim m:

For all the lefties bitching about the Palin ad maybe they could muster the same outrage against dems doing the same violent inducing thing.


Scroll for multiple dem targeting of republicans.

What about Daily Kos placing "a BULLSEYE" on this Congresswoman's district for a primary challenge in 2008?

Maybe our 22YO killer remembered Kos' overheated violent rhetoric.

Or maybe, just maybe he really is an unhinged head case that is too dangerous to be allowed to be in contact with the general public and belongs in an institution or a prison. Wait, that sounds like the description of anyone on the left, but I can't phrase it any better at this moment.

The violent propaganda camp... (Below threshold)
gnossoss papadopolis:

The violent propaganda campaign Goebbels managed against Jews had no influence on the German people? After all, the Jews were just as culpable. The level of denial, I see here infesting the conservative right wing of America, is well documented in Milton Mayers autopsy of 1930's Germany, "They Thought They Were Free". The denial I read here is breathtaking in it's innocence and deeply disturbing in its similarity.

Someone took a huge galoob ... (Below threshold)

Someone took a huge galoob in aisle #48...Proceed with caution!

"We’re going to punish our ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"We’re going to punish our enemies"
"They have the answers so I know whose ass to kick."
“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”
“Argue With Neighbors, Get In Their Face”
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry. I’m angry.”
“If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard.”

You're right we need to stop this rhetoric spurring people to violence. People like he leftist in NO who attacked he GOP couple breaking the young girl's leg. People like the leftists who attacked a bus at the GOP convention in 08 trying to kill dozens of people. People like the idiot who held Discover Channel staff hostage for hours last summer.

Maybe we should tell obama to tone down the rhetoric. Funny how leftists never see that their own bullshit is far worse than everyone else's. Funny how they can't see that their side actually has committed more acts of political violence than anyone else.

Oh, and thanks for invoking Godwin's law. You can leave now that you lost he argument.

jim m. I think Obama had en... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

jim m. I think Obama had enough problems with his "guns, God and gays" comment describing the concerns of Ohio voters. We will have to wait and see the course of the investigation as to the whys and hows? Of course, by that time no one will have much to say.
The Pentagon by law, says they can't say even today, why the shooter was turned down for miliatry service the past year, but he then can go out and legally buy a semi-automatic, something is wrong there?

Steve,I think that... (Below threshold)
jim m:


I think that if you go and review what this nutjob posted on YouTube the answer is clear that he is off his rocker. He is definitely detached from reality.

And, Yes, there is a potential concern that he was refused for military service and can still get a gun, but I say that only in light of the other things I have seen from him. He could have been refused due to his criminal record (possible, but doubtful) or any number of reasons. Furthermore just because the military deems him unstable doesn't mean that he really is. We can't just go denying people their rights based on one interview or exam.

In retrospect it is easy to say that he should not ave been allowed to get a gun. It only brings us around to the issue of where was his family and where were the other people in his life that obviously should have seen something that he was disturbed?

I think Glenn Reynolds says... (Below threshold)
jim m:

I think Glenn Reynolds says it best about the political opportunism here:

If you’re using this event to criticize the “rhetoric” of Sarah Palin or others with whom you disagree, then you’re either asserting a connection between the “rhetoric” and the shooting — which based on evidence to date would be what we call a vicious lie — or you’re not, in which case you’re just seizing on a tragedy to try to score unrelated political points, which is contemptible. So which is it?

The lefty trolls could help by answering that question.

Hey, did I ever tell you th... (Below threshold)
"But now Fox says it was a ... (Below threshold)

"But now Fox says it was a pistol, but that just seems too improbable for that many shot that quickly by one gunman."

Here you had someone in a crowd randomly aiming at people and shooting. It's the very definition of a target rich environment in a gun free zone, not that speed really had ANYTHING to do with it.

The shooter was an evil sick SOB that I hope gets an express lane ride to hell's front doors.

It is a little early to cal... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

It is a little early to call any connection a viscious lie, and there may have been no connection that we know of, it is still conjecture, even by the sherrif, but it wouldn't have been for want of provocation.

Here is an official ad that her tea party opponent with photo holding an bigger gun used in June, presumably with his own approval, by tea partier Jesse Kelly.

"Get on Target for Victory in November. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully automatic M16 with Jesse Kelly.” The event costs $50.The not too subtle message being shooting a gun can help remove Giffords.

It is all political rhetoric, (chuckle) but don't think that some person, fixated on language, and not nuance or metaphor, whom the army presumbly refused as unstable, with a pea sized brain but loaded with hatred for Giffords and a semi automatic Glock might not somehow be influenced, and begrudge spending the fifty dollars when he can turn up at Safeways for free and make his statement, not in a metaphor.

So if there is no discernable connection (which I doubt) is Glenn Reynolds suggesting his brand of politicians carry on exhorting the public, which contains crazies, with a wink, to seek "second amendment remedies".. until someone does that just that, and then they can say, they weren't to be taken so seriously.

Steve, you are pathetic. Yo... (Below threshold)

Steve, you are pathetic. You forget a major network talk show put a picture of GW Bush with cross hairs over his face with assassinate. Oh, I know. That was "funny". Back to the pathetic part for you. You wallow in your own world. This is not political. This is a sick fuck who did a sick things. ww

Ok Steve. We'll put you do... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Ok Steve. We'll put you down as "Contemptible".

"That a never ending stream... (Below threshold)

"That a never ending stream of hate and violence and paranoia on CONSERVATICE media did, in no way, influence this sick man?

32. Posted by gnossoss papadopolis

Hey asshole. You ever listen to Olbermann or Shultz? Oh, that's right. They're liberal, so everything they say is "nuanced".

Liberals: any evidence that... (Below threshold)

Liberals: any evidence that the shooter was inspired by Palin and the map on her website? No? Then, in the immortal words of Keef Slobberman: "SHUT!!! THE HELL!!! UP!!!"

Steve, can you link to the ... (Below threshold)

Steve, can you link to the article/report that stated he legally purchased the gun used in this atrocious attack?






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