« "Can someone tell me why Sarah Palin is not in Jail?" | Main | Christina Taylor Green: The face of innocence »

Free Speech, Foul Actions

The horrific attack on Rep. Giffords yesterday in Tucson has sparked a debate about, well, debate. Even as the media has acknowledged that the alleged gunman in custody had no ties to any political party or movement, many well-known anchors have tried to blame selected groups for the attack; in the absence of evidence, they fall back on innuendo and gossip, blaming their enemies for the "climate" they claim at least 'influenced' the crime. In such false and hateful accusations, these self-impressed narcissists not only fail to stop and consider their own behavior, as they demand of others, they try to turn the crime to their own advantage.

Let's just stop right there, and focus on what we know at this time:

1. None of the victims of yesterday's shootings deserved any of the violence, regardless of their political or personal opinions;
2. The suspect in custody had a history of aberrant behavior and violent, antisocial beliefs. In succession, he was rejected by the Army and suspended from his university for what seemed, even years go, to be advocacy of violence and a rejection of civil discourse to discuss and address political issues;
3. No mainstream or significant television or radio talk show ever advocated violence, especially against elected officials. The hyperbole being thrown out now is essentially dishonest and inflammatory, ironically in character and justification no different from even the strongest political campaign ads run in the past several election cycles;
4. Rep. Giffords is no extremist, no enemy of common sense. The meeting she held yesterday was no part of an election campaign, but a commitment to meet her constituents and learn their opinions. As a Democrat, Giffords supported her party and the President but she was notably open to Republican opinions and alternatives as well. There is no sense to committing violence against an elected official, but even from the paranoid perspective attacking Giffords makes no sense.

This was a senseless act of violence, and should no more be assigned to an official or significant political opinion than a mugging or drive-by shooting. As we remember the families of the victims, and consider how we move forward from this, we would all do well to put aside blame and attacks of opponents, and to count the perpetrators of such crimes as they are - failed and worthless creatures, who tried to drag others down to their level in a futile act of hatred and violence. Such monsters need to be put away, and at need put down, but they should be forgotten, not used to advance personal or political vendetta or machinations.

At times like this, we need to be people, not politicians, and to focus on healing, not the hatred.


TrackBack URL for this entry:

Comments (44)

Giffords was on Sarah Palin... (Below threshold)
Woop dere it is:

Giffords was on Sarah Palin's Hit List.

The hit was successful but the patient is hanging on. Meanwhile others have been injured and killed.

It's time for the right to own up to their responsibility in this tragedy. Having a leader of your part put out a published "hit lit" then feigning surprise when one of the requested hits are carried out fools no one.

Read the last line of my pi... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

Read the last line of my piece again, 'Woop' ... you're not improving the quality of your argument.

Giffords was on Kos' hit li... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Giffords was on Kos' hit list first. A dairy on Kos said that Giffords is "Dead to me"

Cut the crap woop. Even if what Palin did could be considered provocative there is no evidence that this nutjob even knew about it much less was influenced by it.

Attempts by libs to draw any connection are disgusting and show a callous disregard for the suffering of those injured by attempting to capitalize on their misery for your own personal benefit.

Woop once again shows how f... (Below threshold)

Woop once again shows how full of shit he is.

THat sheriff is disgusting.... (Below threshold)

THat sheriff is disgusting. . .

Hey, Woop, please explain t... (Below threshold)
Today's NYT states that Lou... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Today's NYT states that Loughner met Giffords in 2007 and from his remarks did not like her. The article characterizes Loughner as a left wing radical.

Maybe Woop, or Pedro or Marcos could come on and explain how a far left radical who met Giffords in 2007 and didn't like her then was influenced by Palin and the Tea Party despite the fact that his politics are wildly divergent and despite he fact that his opinions of Giffords seem to have been formed years before the Tea Party ever came to be.

When even the NYT has given up on the "Loughner is a right wing nut" meme, maybe the rest of you should join them.

Go to hell Whooping ... (Below threshold)

Go to hell Whooping narc.

So what we know is...... (Below threshold)

So what we know is...

in 2007 Loughner met and didn't like her

in 2010 Sarah Palin published a hit list that showed a rifle scope cross hairs on Giffords

in 2011 Loughner shot Giffords.

You left out in 2008 Kos pu... (Below threshold)
jim m:

You left out in 2008 Kos publishes a hit list naming Giffords.

You really are a sack of sh*t

You also left out the follo... (Below threshold)
jim m:

You also left out the following inflamatory staements from obama:

“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
“Get in Their Faces!”
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
"Hit Back Twice As Hard”

And in just this past election cycle:
Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to Fight for it.”
“Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”

All these things he said to a young man described by his classmates as radically left and mentally disturbed.

So by your own line of reasoning, Woop, we have a fantastic case to charge that Barrack Obama is guilty of inciting this young man to kill all these people. Giffords was a Blue Dog Democrat and arguably one of "the enemy".

And where, Woop, is there a... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

And where, Woop, is there any connection between the gunman and Ms. Palin? Your fecal imagination does not count.

I hope the liberals, and wh... (Below threshold)
recovered liberal democrat:

I hope the liberals, and whoever else, keep insulting the intelligence of the American people with this idiocy. It got them thrown out of the Senate and House in November and it will get more thrown out in 2012. I say get out of the way and let them make bigger fools of themselves. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch.

Hey woop I see that a forme... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Hey woop I see that a former democratic candidate for Governor of Kansas and Mayor of Topeka will be protesting the funeral of 9YO Christina Taylor Green. Will you be showing up to protest alongside your fellow democrats?

Give it up, Woop. Mr Drummo... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Give it up, Woop. Mr Drummond is correct in this instance. This guy didn't KNOW left from right. The voices in his head kept giving him contradictory directions.

I saw an interview with a bystander yesterday. She said, through tears, "A twenty two year old kid just threw his life away and took six innocent people with him."

It's a senseless tragedy, that's all, and as Mr Drummond says, those who attempt to use it to advance a political agenda are wrong to do so.

thank you Bruce... (Below threshold)
jim m:

thank you Bruce

+1 Bryce... (Below threshold)

+1 Bryce

Rather than trying to dr... (Below threshold)
gaius piconius:

Rather than trying to draw conclusions early from too few clearcut facts I have let things take their proper course in the hope that my own judgements, later, will be based more securely on trusted reports. I'm letting the investigation take it's course...a rather common sense tack I believe. But there is one thing that I can comment on already, and that is the seemingly preordained line of sheer horse cock that Woop de whatsit will string out. Quite often I use that utilitarian and very earthy expression...horse cock...because it, for me, earned it's currency in the soldier's barracks, (blessed be it's memory), period of my life, wherein a Woop could never take root. It's functionality and punch are virtually unmatched except by the two most expressive words ever conjoined in the anglo-saxon lexicon of noble notions...'Foxtrot Oscar'. Because on this sad day I am moved to better manners than is usual for me I shall forego the satisfaction of elaboration, but, Woop, my planned detachment did not cause my failure to anticipate sheer mischief from the likes of you in this particular incident. And there you were, right in the lead comment, bringing horse cock to masquerade as honest theorizing. It would be simple enough to dismiss the matter right here with the 'dynamic duo', but one other comment will not serve a useless purpose. You, Woop, are like others of your political bent, a subversive, but not in the usual sense of religious, moral, political, governmental or any organizational subversion. Instead your sole intent is to subvert common-sense, and it is that pointless, collective, aim that serves ill for society as a whole. What eludes the watcher though, Woop, is....why! What is there, concrete, for you to gain in creating such an unreasoned accusation?

"What is there, concrete, f... (Below threshold)

"What is there, concrete, for you to gain in creating such an unreasoned accusation?"

Because he is probably Lee Ward under a new name. When Lee posted here or wallowed in his own sanctimonius cesspool at Wizbang Blue any mention of Palin would send him on a tirade. Please note that he tends to appear here when Palin can be the focus of his vitriol.

in 2007 Loughner m... (Below threshold)
in 2007 Loughner met and didn't like her

in 2010 Sarah Palin published a hit list that showed a rifle scope cross hairs on Giffords

in 2011 Loughner shot Giffords.

Woop, either provide solid evidence (not solid material you pulled out of the orifice where you keep your head) linking the middle part to the first and last parts.

Drat! Got click happy. Th... (Below threshold)

Drat! Got click happy. That last post should've ended:

"...or shut the hell up."

Bruce Henry- thank you for ... (Below threshold)

Bruce Henry- thank you for a voice of reason from the left. I was begining to think that there was no hope for our country. Morons like Woop and those other trolls today incite me to want to smack their dumbass.

Loughner's actions are just... (Below threshold)

Loughner's actions are just a logical extension of the Tea Party confrontations we saw all last year. It's just one step further.

Palin drew a target on Grifford's back and Loughner pulled the trigger. Those are facts. You can hide from that ugliness and you can shoot at the messenger but those are the facts.

Giffords <a href="http://ww... (Below threshold)

Giffords own comments a year ago regarding Palin's actions creating a "hit list"...

Giffords responded on MSNBC to Palin's "crosshairs" targeting, stating, "The way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district, when people do that, they have got to realize there are consequences to that," she added.

Gifford saw the targeting the same way I and others see it.

The left has been talking about this for the last year. And now we see the results of Palin's 'targeting'...

From the same link above </... (Below threshold)

From the same link above

Around the time of the Palin post, Giffords's district office was vandalized with a window being shot out. CBS News's Jill Jackson reported at the time that staffers were "kind of shaken up" after receiving numerous threats including "nasty language, foul language."

In August of 2009, someone dropped a handgun at a Giffords town hall meeting, prompting calls to police from Giffords' staff. A spokesman said then that "We have never felt the need before to notify law enforcement when we hold these events."

Asked by the New York Post in the wake of the shooting if Giffords had any enemies, her father responded, "Yeah. The whole Tea Party."

Palin's post resulted in a series of events, beginning with the window being shot out of Giffords district office. There is a clear line from Palin's post to violence taken against Giffords.

Palin drew a target on G... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Palin drew a target on Grifford's back and Loughner pulled the trigger. Those are facts.

No Palin put a target on a US map over the geographical location of the 8th district. THAT is the fact, not the lie you posted above.

Kos did the same thing. THAT is a fact as well.

Loughner was deranged. That is a fact.

Loughner killed those innocent people. That is a fact.

The last two are related. The first two bear no relationship to the last one except in the fevered minds of conspiracy theorists and truthers like you.

And now evidence is merging... (Below threshold)

And now evidence is merging that Loughner is just another right wing white supremacist racist.

Tea Party Rhetoric: “Nothing better than a dead liberal”

The article pulls back the covers on this Tea Party right wing conspiracy to kill liberals.

Give it up. Everyone who k... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Give it up. Everyone who knew him called him far left. The NYT has dropped the Tea Party has dropped this meme in their news coverage.

There is no connection.

If anyone in Wizbang manage... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

If anyone in Wizbang management are monitoring the boards, wielding the Troll Hammmer is long overdue. It would be indecent not to.

First, thank you Bruce. No... (Below threshold)
DJ Drummond:

First, thank you Bruce. Not only for providing a much-needed voice of reason, but for proving Ms. Giffords' own point - that we are all people, none of us angels or demons. Some few rise above the mean and show the rest a better way we might go. Woop shows that some other few cannot find decency in their hearts, even in times where it is most needed and there is neither call nor profit for their boorish mien.

That's not a shot at the Left in general, by the way. I, and a couple colleagues, found out a few years ago that crude belligerence and hatred can reside on the Right as well as on the Left - I was expelled from a prominent blog for daring to hold differing opinions from the site owner. I might note that the blog has since faded in readership and prominence, but that was mostly due to the loss of certain other talented writers who left at the same time - in any case I landed well, thanks to an offer from Kevin and the support of our kind readers her at Wizbang. But I also became painfully aware that neither end of the political spectrum is completely pure and wise, nor bereft of honor and sense.

I have unfortunately known far too many people touched by violence, whether crime, war, or simple chaos through an unseen fate. The grim truth of what happened Saturday is that it will happen again, somewhere, sometime, and it will make no more sense than it does now. However, we may bring some light from the darkness, by remembering the people concerned and seeking to heal, provide solace, and seek common ground even with those who might normally be though of as opponents in politics or debate. There is a brotherhood of Man, and whatever your creed or ideology, we must stand together as a greater family and community, common not only as Americans but in support of decency, hope, and shared courage in the face of this madness we saw and some suffered on Saturday.

Eric Erickson said about th... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Eric Erickson said about the left and media in general are falsely accusing the right and risk fomenting violence themselves. In woop's case I think he is saying what he is to deliberately incite violence against the Right.


While everyone wrings their... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

While everyone wrings their hands of collective blame, because this guy was far too incoherent and scary to be a member of any group or movement, as a society, remember we have made it easier in recent years for such a impending crazed homicidial maniac, which was practically written on his forehead, to carry out his crimes.

Weapon in rampage was banned under Clinton-era law
The now-expired assault weapons ban made it illegal to make the type of magazine used in the Giffords shooting

Also from 'Pausing to reload'.

there’s no way he could have passed even a cursory training program for concealed carry; he couldn’t even get through a community-college algebra class without being spotted as a dangerous person. Arizona is one of only three states to allow concealed carry without a special permit.

But even assuming that he would have simply ignored that law, there’s no reason to think that he would have been sufficiently dedicated or knowledgeable to acquire an illegal high-capacity magazine. If he’d had only 10 rounds in his clip rather than 32, some of his victims would be alive and unhurt.

Glenn Reynolds has a new co... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Glenn Reynolds has a new column up in the WSJ. He describes what woop and friends on the left are saying as a blood libel. I think he has a point.


Shortly after November's electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews's TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday's tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner's killing spree might fill the bill.


Those who try to connect Sarah Palin and other political figures with whom they disagree to the shootings in Arizona use attacks on "rhetoric" and a "climate of hate" to obscure their own dishonesty in trying to imply responsibility where none exists. But the dishonesty remains.

As they say, read the whole thing.

Steve,Technically ... (Below threshold)
jim m:


Technically the weapon was not banned, only the high cap magazine and the reality is that many high cap mags were available because those manufactured prior to the ban were still considered legal for resale.

The reality is that you cannot stop a mad man. If you cut off one avenue for destruction he will just choose another. In places where guns are scarce people have been known to hack each other apart with machetes. In this case he might have just made a bomb and blown everyone up.

And the reality is that you cannot treat everyone like they might be a madman because the vast majority of us (woop excluded) are not mad and we do not deserve to have our rights taken away because there might be a mad man among us.

Bruce @ 15, I gave a +1 and... (Below threshold)

Bruce @ 15, I gave a +1 and a call out for your comment, but it got moderated for some reason. Can't get on your case for what I don't like in one (many) thread but not acknowledge when you are right on.

As for woop, he has never had a point or purpose but to spew talking points that I doubt even he believes. It's either a game to him to come in here like a trapped pigeon OR the political storyline he'd like to be true is more important than details. Who he is, who cares? His talking points sound like Lee Ward marinated in BryanDs special blend of antisemitism and schizoid expression. Maybe they went and had a love child after Jay Tea banninated them...

No one wants to take the le... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

No one wants to take the leadership in this issue or be proactive the same way that everyone ignored Loughner hoping he wouldn't eventually kill them..just someone else.

NO moderate Republican, if there are any left, would dare repudiate Sharon Angle for her blather on 'second amendment remedies' whille Obama is just as bad.

The Brady Center gave Obama an "F" for his first year in a report titled "Failed Leadership, Lost Lives."

State laws are also an issue. The Brady Center's Vice says that 10 states regulate assault weapons. In California, for example, Loughner could not have legally purchased a gun with a high-capacity magazine. Arizona, though, has among the weakest gun laws in the nation.

"Even if folks had seen Loughner with the gun walking up to the congresswoman, it was perfectly legal until he started firing," Vice says.

So if someone had tackled Loughner, with his Glock in hand, before he started shooting, they would technically be the ones committing an assault. Great state of affairs!

Steve,"Assault wea... (Below threshold)
jim m:


"Assault weapon" is a made up term and has little meaning apart from the law that bears the name.

Secondly, brandishing a weapon, except in self defense, is illegal in most places and anyone tackling him before he started shooting would have a self defense excuse for any assault complaint lodged against them. By your logic the Secret Service would have to wait until someone fired a shot at the President before disarming them. This is not the case.

Third, gun control laws do little or nothing to stop crime. Chicago and DC have some of the strictest gun control laws and gun crime is way out of control. By comparison the gun crime rate in Tuscon is quite low. Gun control laws do not create a barrier against people getting guns illegally and in this case even the existing laws (federal background check, 3 day waiting period etc) could not stop someone who had no felony record or record of hospitalization for mental illness.

The fact is that Loughner got his guns legally and the only way to have stopped him from doing so is unrelated to gun control, it is to have diagnosed his mental illness in a timely manner.

And as I said above, even had he been prevented from getting a gun he very well may have chosen an alternative method of destruction. such was his state of mind.

jim, I suppose if he had tr... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

jim, I suppose if he had tried to bring a bottle of mouthwash on board a plane he would have been in serious trouble, particularly with his state of mind, but to walk into Safeways carrying a loaded Glock with huge rejigged magazine clip conceiled or open, there is nothing security can no until he starts firing. mnnnnnnn

The extended mag would have... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The extended mag would have prevented any effective concealed carry. The mag extends beyond the bottom of the grip so it is difficult to hide. In this case he wasn't really trying to conceal it for very long. And as I said before as soon as he pulls the gun everyone is within their rights to defend themselves against him including assaulting him. There is no need to wait for him to start shooting.

And while I agree that this kid with a 4oz bottle of mouthwash should have gotten indefinite detention as a terrorist threat at almost any airport, we are talking about the TSA and they would have been more likely to focus on grandma or frisking the young chic with the DD chest.

This kid loks like it fit t... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

This kid loks like it fit the profile of the Virgina Tech shooter. Remember the outcry there for anothermentally disturbed ticking time bomb. My solution would be when the; wanna a be murdere'r starts uttering death threats- the police acknowledged this-isn.t that a crime in Arizona,I suppose not, he loses his second amendment rights. The people we should be putting in jail are those we are afraid of, not those we are at mad at.

The problem is that years a... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The problem is that years ago the bleeding hearts decided that our treatment of the mentally ill was not nice enough and we lost the ability to really evaluate some of these people who are disturbed but still nominally functional.

We need to get to a place where we can make people get evaluated so they can get help.

Prayers for Representative ... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

Prayers for Representative Gifford and all the victims.

Both sides have been "targeting districts" for at least half a century. Any idiot knows that means "target to take over by winning in the election," not literally.

Well, almost any idiot . . . yet there is nary a penumbra or emanation of evidence the shooter even saw the Palin post in question. There is direct evidence he listed The Communist Manifesto as a favorite book, and labeled a video of an American flag being burned as a YouTube favorite. Sounds a lot closer ideologically to woop than to Palin, doesn't he?

Of course, woop knows all this, and is simply being dishonest and inflammatory, as usual.

On his 'favorite' book list... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

On his 'favorite' book list from high school when he was 17, was also Ayn Rand. In the last year rs so he seemed to have become completely rewired, getting kicked out of college because he was consistently yelling, it was unconsititutional since it was federally funded, and he ranted a lot about government brainwash, gramamr and mind control.

Hey he was a complete nut! What is dangerous is his fascination with violence and guns. That is the lethal cocktail, as jim suggests with a mentally ill person

Depending on what magazine ... (Below threshold)

Depending on what magazine he really had, it may or may not have been illegal in CA, Steve. I don't trust the first reports about the details of any gun incident; too many modern reporters know too much about guns that is just not accurate :)

But, either way, it's not much of a point. A 30 round extended mag is legal in CA, but the 33 is not. Those extra 3 rounds wouldn't really have changed the equation, would it?
The speed with which a practiced handler can swap a loaded mag makes it even more irrelevant. And this guy had at least one extra magazine, though no word on its capacity.






Follow Wizbang

Follow Wizbang on FacebookFollow Wizbang on TwitterSubscribe to Wizbang feedWizbang Mobile


Send e-mail tips to us:

[email protected]

Fresh Links


Section Editor: Maggie Whitton

Editors: Jay Tea, Lorie Byrd, Kim Priestap, DJ Drummond, Michael Laprarie, Baron Von Ottomatic, Shawn Mallow, Rick, Dan Karipides, Michael Avitablile, Charlie Quidnunc, Steve Schippert

Emeritus: Paul, Mary Katherine Ham, Jim Addison, Alexander K. McClure, Cassy Fiano, Bill Jempty, John Stansbury, Rob Port

In Memorium: HughS

All original content copyright © 2003-2010 by Wizbang®, LLC. All rights reserved. Wizbang® is a registered service mark.

Powered by Movable Type Pro 4.361

Hosting by ServInt

Ratings on this site are powered by the Ajax Ratings Pro plugin for Movable Type.

Search on this site is powered by the FastSearch plugin for Movable Type.

Blogrolls on this site are powered by the MT-Blogroll.

Temporary site design is based on Cutline and Cutline for MT. Graphics by Apothegm Designs.

Author Login

Terms Of Service

DCMA Compliance Notice

Privacy Policy