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Cheesed Off

I've been a bit off the last few days (personal/Day Job stuff running me into the ground), but I have been watching the Wisconsin union mess unfold. And it has me seriously aggravated. Aggravated enough to come up with a few ideas that might speed things to a resolution.

The first observation I had was that the liberals have made it abundantly clear that they are not interested in a political settlement, in working within the system, to resolve matters. This was made clear when the Democrats in the state Senate bolted the state and the rallies commenced.

Winston Churchill once said "jaw, jaw is better than war, war." Well, the Wisconsin jaws fled and sent in the warriors. Politicians out, thugs in.

My answer: answer thuggery with thuggery. But the left's idea of thuggery is huge masses of people making threats. My idea of "thuggery" is to use the system against the other side. No physical threats, no violence, but no "mercy" or "compassion" or "understanding." Just brutal rule of law -- and the occasional mild and carefully-chosen circumvention of same, with the intent of restoring the rule of law.
First up, the teachers who walked out did so in violation of their contract and state law. They're fired. Period. End of discussion. They can re-apply, but their previous conduct can and should be held against them.

Second, the doctors handing out phony absentee notes? Report them to the state medical boards for fraud. If they filed for insurance compensation, toss in insurance fraud. If their political beliefs trump their professional standards and duties and integrity, then so be it. Far be it from me to deny the logical consequences of their choice.

That's for starters. That's for the brute squads. Now, for the state Senators who have run for the border.

It seems the governor is saying he's suspending pay for the absent Senators' staffs. His reasoning? If their bosses aren't around, then they aren't really necessary. Good first move.

But take it further.

I don't think the governor can suspend the pay and benefits of the Senators themselves, but one idea I heard seems to have some merit. Cancel their direct deposit. Print their actual paychecks and have them held in the Senate clerk's office, only to be turned over to the Senator himself or herself. They want their money? They can come and get it.

As for the Senate's inability to proceed, I have an idea there, too. It's been a bit over 20 years since I was my student government's Parliamentarian, and haven't read up on Roberts' Rules Of Order in about that long, but here's a thought:

The presiding officer calls the Senate to session, and then moves for unanimous consent to dispense with the roll call of members. Once that's disposed of, he or she declares that by voice vote a quorum is present. Next, he moves for unanimous consent that all votes be held by voice, and not roll call. Once that's done, start in on the plan to strip the public sector unions of their right to collective bargain.

Yes, it's illegal. Yes, it would never survive a court challenge.

But that doesn't matter.
The purpose of passing these bills isn't to get them implemented, it's to get them challenged.

As far as I know, the only people who would have standing to challenge the move would be a member of the state Senate. And if the Republicans are all in agreement, none of them will object. It would take a Democrat to challenge the move and the measures passed under it -- and to do so, they would have to return to Wisconsin.

At that point, they can be taken to the Capitol and compelled to attend. And those same measures that were passed by unanimous vote before can be re-passed 19-1.

One final point, and this is, to me, the most important. President Obama has not only come out in favor of the unions and the Democrats in this case, but he's taken it a bit further. One of the bigger out-of-state backers of the thugs is Organizing For America, the former campaign arm of President Obama's that still operates under his name. As I've said many times, their every action is literally taken in his name, and he owns each and every thing they do.

He has yet to be held fully accountable for the actions they take in his name, and it is long, long overdue.

I recall someone said a few years ago that "elections have consequences." Last November, the Democrats were soundly rejected in Wisconsin. As a consequence, their power has been greatly diminished in the state government. Their reaction -- to flee the state to deny the Senate a quorum -- is a gross abrogation of their duties to their constituents, and should have severe consequences.

The above measures would be a good start.


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Comments (51)

I like your recommendations... (Below threshold)
Bill Fabrizio:

I like your recommendations. A "Jay Tea" party might spontaneously break out at any moment!

Love your paycheck idea.</p... (Below threshold)

Love your paycheck idea.

How deliciously sinister to lure the mice...with cheese.

Did I say mice? I meant rod... (Below threshold)

Did I say mice? I meant rodents.

Actually, anyone affected b... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Actually, anyone affected by the law would have standing to challenge it in court so a dem would not have to return to the state to challenge it.

But by all means terminate their entire staffs immediately because they are no longer necessary since he senate dems have sent a clear message that they do not intend to come back until the threat of this legislation is removed.

File recall petitions against them and if they return to the state to campaign then arrest them and force them to the capitol for a vote.

And the paycheck idea is perfect. Fire their staff and refuse to pay them unless they pick up a check in person.

Funny how people marching w... (Below threshold)
Bruce Henry:

Funny how people marching with union signs=thugs, but marching with Tea Party signs=hardworkingpatriotictaxpayers.

Good ideas - but could we t... (Below threshold)

Good ideas - but could we take it a bit further? Are there any grounds for arresting spouses as material witnesses? Hold them in cells until claimed by their fleeing spouse. The purpose of holding them would be to question them as to the location of their spouse.

Bruce, it ain't the sign-ca... (Below threshold)

Bruce, it ain't the sign-carrying that defines the thuggery. It's the "governor is Hitler," it's the protests at people's homes, it's the general predisposition for violence.

You know -- typical union stuff.


Thanks Jay. Apparently Bruc... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Thanks Jay. Apparently Bruce cannot read so he really couldn't tell any difference between the signs carried by union thugs and Tea Party protesters.

While we are thinking about... (Below threshold)
jim m:

While we are thinking about how to get the dems to do their jobs we might also consider going after the doctors who wrote fake medical excuses for protesters. These doctors have violated their professional responsibility and should have their licenses to practice revoked or at least suspended.

Hahaha, a Tea Party would b... (Below threshold)

Hahaha, a Tea Party would be spectacular. I can't wait to see what It'd look like.
Good post Jay, agree about the union observations.

Can they get Epstein's moth... (Below threshold)

Can they get Epstein's mother to sign the sick notes?

Bruce, as usual, fails to s... (Below threshold)

Bruce, as usual, fails to see the "nuance".

Hey Bruce, where's all that 'civility' that Barry was talking about last month?

As with all things liberal,... (Below threshold)

As with all things liberal, it's civility for thee, but not for me.

I like the idea of charging the union $10 mil monthly to deduct union dues from paychecks.

Could one of the Republican... (Below threshold)

Could one of the Republicans switch to Dem thus giving the legislator the one member needed to hold session?

tom:it's not at le... (Below threshold)


it's not at least one Dem member, the requirement is for 3/5ths of senate to be present.

That's only for finance bills. I don't know why the WI senate does not just change the collective bargaining rules using a non-finance bill?

absolutely splendid ideas, ... (Below threshold)

absolutely splendid ideas, Jay!!

I truly hope you sent them direct to the Governor's office in Madison. Please do so if you haven't already.

and as for Burce's pathetic attempt to compare Union thugs to Tea Party people...puhleeeze!

Jay and Jim pointed out the signs, but here's a couple more differences:
- the TRASH...the Union goons TRASHED the Capitol, and the surroundings
- the CHILDREN! The "Teachers" Unions dragged their students to the early protests as human shields...and continue to deny the children an education! Tea Party people DO THEIR JOBS!

JuatRand points out what I ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

JuatRand points out what I think is an important difference.

The Trash.

Whenever we see leftists gather we see the area of the event completely trashed. They have no respect for their country or for anyone. They constantly whine about the environment but they will leave mounds of garbage everywhere they gather.

By contrast go to any Tea Party or conservative gathering and you will find the site left clean, sometimes cleaner than when they arrived. You can tell whether or not the left is serious about their message or whether they are serious about intimidation. It isn't the message that is important to them it is the application of force.

If they cared about their message they would care about making sure that the messenger was seen in a good light. They don't care about that so we can infer that the real point is to show everyone else that if they don't get their way they will hurt us, our homes and our families.

Bruce, you want to impress ... (Below threshold)

Bruce, you want to impress us with your patriotism? Bring a pooper scooper with you to the next rally you attend and clean up after yourself.

Just a guess but I'll bet a... (Below threshold)

Just a guess but I'll bet all those fraudster doctors are employees of some state agency. Find out which one and tell the director to fire 'em. Then arrest 'em for comitting fraud. See if they like working for a living.

Jay,I just love th... (Below threshold)


I just love the paycheck idea. Let's throw their staff's paychecks in there too. Freeze expense accounts. Freeze credit cards. Impound state vehicles or revoke their registrations, etc. You get the idea. The Governor isn't trying to catch mice, he's after rats. Bigger game requires bigger bait.

The Gov should announce the layoffs begin Monday. Anyone not on maternity leave or pre-approved vacation is at the head of the line, certainly anyone identified on video. "We start with 66,000. What? I said 6,000?!? I must have misspoke earlier, 66,000." That will get their attention.

These jokers may be dems, but I bet there are enough people who voted against them to start a recall petition in every single one of their districts. It wouldn't shock me if that is already under way.

Not having kids in school, I'm not the best suited for this, but I'm sure there are plenty of ways for parents to bring the pain train to the truant teachers. Fire the teachers. De-certify the teacher's union. I bet that teachers (good ones!) would flock in from neighboring states like Illinois for a chance at a "right to work" environment.

Which reminds me of another idea. I don't know if Wisconsin is a "right to work" state or not. If it isn't, it needs to be one about 5 minutes after these current bills are passed. That's a suitable answer to these union thugs. That would be our gun to their knife.

I'd be surprised if that is a real physician handing out the doctor's notes, but not shocked. If it is, bring the full power of the state down on his neck. As already pointed out, he is committing fraud. There's no room for that in the medical community. Even that clown, Holder seems to think so.

Limbaugh made an interesting point on Friday. He asked the left if they are really sure they want to start down the path of mob rule. His point was that we have a MUCH bigger mob.

You are on the right track Jay. There are plenty legal ways to bring the pain in this matter, and even more marginally legal ways. It's time to stop stepping into the ring with both hands tied behind our backs and wearing a blindfold.

One of the docs handing out... (Below threshold)

One of the docs handing out notes without an exam is James Shropshire, an FP at the Monona Clinic for the U or W.

License # 33770-20
[email protected]

You could file a complaint with the Board at:
[email protected]

Well, the first thing he sh... (Below threshold)
Walter Cronanty:

Well, the first thing he should do is fire the dumb sons-of-a-bitches that okayed using school buses [yes, publicly purchased school buses - apparently with taxpayer purchased gas] to bus the "protesters" to Madison. Since when is that legal?
"Several buses pulled up after the rally on Saturday to bring the state union workers back to their cars.
Guess who paid for the gas?"

"You could file a complaint... (Below threshold)

"You could file a complaint with the Board at:
[email protected]"

I would, but I'm from 'Out of State.' And what kind of example would that set for the children?

Apparently slp, a commentor... (Below threshold)

Apparently slp, a commentor at Hot Air, is better at face recognition than I. All the folks on the video are U of W clinic docs. I doubt they'll get disciplined for being out of their clinics - probably get a bonus.


--As a third year resident, Patrick A McKenna, M.D., is apparently not licensed to practice outside his residency program. His unprofessional practicing medicine in the streets without maintaining proper medical records may give him trouble now and when he wants to get a license after finishing training.


--Anne Eglash MD, Hannah M Keevil MD, Lou Sanner MD, MSPH, and James H Shropshire MD should all be charged with unprofessional conduct and disciplined.


--slp on February 19, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Wisconsin needs a filibuste... (Below threshold)

Wisconsin needs a filibuster, so democrats don't have to resort to this. That way they could in effect just block every piece of legislation with much less effort. Like Republicans do.

How long have warchild and ... (Below threshold)

How long have warchild and bruce been dating?

Sure, those could be answer... (Below threshold)

Sure, those could be answers.

The question is, why it was a good idea for Walker to hand $137 million in tax breaks to people who don't need it, and then use the shortfall he created to try and break unions by a) reneging on agreements, and then b) try to remove their right to change it via collective bargaining.

Also, FYI - unions aren't automatically thugs any more than Tea Partyers are automatically racist. But I'm sure you know these things on some level.

Why do I bother pointing these things out? I'm not really sure.

jim x @ #26 ~ I don't know ... (Below threshold)
Jim Addison:

jim x @ #26 ~ I don't know if you are stupid or dishonest - and of course I can't rule out "both" - but the tax breaks have NOTHING to do with the current budget shortfall. ZERO. They may have an effect in the "out" years - not at all certain, since they are only available to those who create new jobs or relocate businesses to the state, so "static analysis" is likely just wrong - but there is already a $137 million shortfall in the CURRENT fiscal year.

Bruce Henry @ #% ~ Tea Party demonstrations don't seek to interfere with the ability of legislatures to do their jobs, nor do they sport the sort of violent vitriol we see from your thugs. And it wasn't Tea Party people trying to sabotage union sound systems, it was the opposite. Tea Party protests aren't held at people's private homes to terrorize their families, either. It also wasn't Tea Party folks giving all the sanctimonious lectures about "civility" and "tone," was it?

Leftist punk.

Need is in the eye of the b... (Below threshold)

Need is in the eye of the beholder. You could also say that the union does not need free health care. And remember a tax cut is not a government benefit, it is government refraining from taking money from someone who earned it.

And people who act like thugs deserve to be called thugs.

Of course understand that I am wasting pixels on a close-minded poltroon like Jim-x...

Walker is not reneging on a... (Below threshold)

Walker is not reneging on any agreements. The legislation will change employment terms for new contracts going forward. And, there is no "right" to collective bargaining. Either jim x is lying about these things or he's confused.

Jimx,Who do you th... (Below threshold)


Who do you think pays for public sector jobs? The private sector taxpayers. The Gov is trying to bring in taxpayers with those tax breaks which are for outlying years. So your easily debunked talking point about the Gov causing the current budget shortfall is bullshit. It seems some people believe private sector taxpayers are servants to the "public servants".

"Either jim x is lying abou... (Below threshold)

"Either jim x is lying about these things or he's confused."

How about, He has confused the truth with lying.

"Either jim x is lying abou... (Below threshold)
jim m:

"Either jim x is lying about these things or he's confused."

No, you are just laboring under the antiquated notion that truth has to do with facts, when Jim X knows that truth deals with those things that advance the progressive agenda.

Re: # 26 - jim addison, I d... (Below threshold)

Re: # 26 - jim addison, I don't think you are stupid or dishonest. But you are having a rather interesting defensive reaction.

So, besides your unneeded snottiness, I see looking into that Walker's tax cuts don't have an immediate impact on this budget shortfall. So, I was wrong to cite them as a problem causing the current mess.


That said, from what I've looked up we have yet to see what effects Walker's ideal plan to cut salaries would have on the budget. I doubt it's going to do much by itself. And certainly attempting to remove collective bargaining by fiat isn't cool either, for those of us who happen to see unions as groups of people who hard-working Americans taxpayers also.

thug -- from Thuggee an Ind... (Below threshold)

thug -- from Thuggee an Indian fraternity of professional assassins.

If you all are so intimidated enough by a bunch of middle-aged schoolteachers, that you equate them with professional assassins, you really need to grow a pair.

My high school gym teacher ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

My high school gym teacher played defense for the Chicago Bears for 2 seasons. You'd wet your pants if he came after you so you should probably reconsider your statement above.

jim m,Has he shown... (Below threshold)

jim m,

Has he shown up at a teachers rally brandishing an ax handle and cracking skulls?

If not, I stand by my statement.

#32 - "By Fiat"? Is that w... (Below threshold)

#32 - "By Fiat"? Is that what you call the democratic process where the people of the state elect legislators who pass laws according to the constitution of the state? Gee, how interesting.

I'm just pointing out that ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

I'm just pointing out that your implication that teachers are a bunch of unthreatening wimps is false.

Also, since Trumka came to town you can bet that his AFL-CIO thugs came with him. And thuggishness is not revealed only in breaking skulls, it is seen in sabotaging PA systems like we saw in Madison yesterday.

[. . .] for those... (Below threshold)
[. . .] for those of us who happen to see unions as groups of people who hard-working Americans taxpayers also.

Here's what Walker proposes: in an effort to keep the state from collapsing financially, state employee raises to be limited to the cost of living, state employees to contribute less than 6% of their income to their own pensions, and state employees to keep collective bargaining as to salary issues.

For this, the teachers walk off the job and occupy the capitol, the democrats flee the state, and the liberals come on this site to whine like babies. Good grief.

I am sick of the bombast ou... (Below threshold)

I am sick of the bombast out of Washington, the DNC and their allies.

I wrote to my Congressman and suggested that he let it be known that he was going to introduce legislation to grant the military the same rights that Obama and the Democrats are demanding for Wisconsin's public employees.

If collective bargaining is a "right" then it applies to all Americans.

If he does this, I look forward to the howls. I anticipate with pleasure the convoluted reasoning.

I firmly believe that if this should ever come to pass, the Supreme Court would ultimately decide that no government employee has a "right" to collective bargaining, because their very jobs as well as the terms of their employment are established by legislation.

1) there were several accou... (Below threshold)

1) there were several accounts stating that children were coerced by their teachers into attending. This is called kidnapping.

2)If the schools are not open on Monday. Call a state of emergency. Then start open hiring of anyone with a Bachelors Degree in any field for the position of teacher. These hires will be noted as being "pro tem", but will revert to a permanent position after the completion of the qualifications for a teaching certificate. Applicants will be given 4 years to complete this requirement. They will be hired on under the new compensation package, but since they are "pro tem" they will not be required to join the teachers union.

3)Hold open this session of legislation until the votes are cast. Using "state of emergency" powers as needed

Nut up or shut up.

The unions are offering con... (Below threshold)
jim m:

The unions are offering concessions because they know they are losing this one. obama interceded with his bogus pronouncements and his Organizing for America thug machine. Once more he has stepped in it and is finding himself on the wrong side of the nation.

Parents are already fed up with all the days off that teachers get. Teachers going effectively on strike only heightens the anger and contempt felt by the public for their cause.

The dems have failed once more to control the narrative. The result is that they look petty, greedy and irresponsible. The whole thing has emboldened other states to start down this path rather than making them back down.

The dems have completely misread the national mood. People want real cuts in government spending and are willing to give up some of the table scraps that get handed to them by politicians in favor of having an economy that creates jobs.

Actually, all the polling s... (Below threshold)
joe from Lowell:

Actually, all the polling shows solid support for the unions among Wisconsin voters.

But by all means, keep clinging to you ideological extremism and elitist contempt for working people. Elections have consequences, yes...and the actions a party takes in office have consequences for elections.

I can't believe you're committing suicide right out of the gate like this.

What the lefty loons on thi... (Below threshold)

What the lefty loons on this comments section are plainly saying is they are proud of the democrats that RAN Away from their state and obligations. Ran away.

The created demonstrations of teachers using fake doctor's notes set's a fine example for the students they profess to care about. The teachers have proven what I have always thought, they don't care about the children. They care about themselves only. I wonder why the stats for students abilities keeps going downward? Teachers.

I sent all the republican senators an email of encouragement and I also sent an email to the state republican chairman of Wis. pledging financial help to the campaigns of the dem's opponent in the next election cycle.

I live in Texas and the dem's did this during redistricting. I am proud to say only one of the senators is still serving.

The left is demostrating so much hate during this "protest". I thought they didn't do that? ww

Unions have the lowest leve... (Below threshold)
jim m:

Unions have the lowest level of popular support ever, according to both Pew Research and Gallup. A Clarus poll showed that 65% of Americans thought that government workers should not be unionized and that poll cited 42% of democrats thinking that way.

Say what you want, but with unions having their lowest popularity in decades, declining membership in every industry other than government, and public sentiment against government unions, I don't think that opposing them is anything close to suicide.

Furthermore, the ugly nature of the union protest (forcing actual working parents to stay home to take care of their children while teachers claimed pay for unapproved absences, threats of violence against elected officials, running away from responsibility rather than facing it) doesn't seem likely to swing public sentiment in the unions favor.

.... the teachers who walke... (Below threshold)

.... the teachers who walked out did so in violation of their contract and state law. They're fired. Period. End of discussion ....

Bears repeating that the teachers have already long long long been the nation's Greeks -- and now they're also revolting!

And have created the perfect storm for the Wisconsin governor's Reagan Minute.

Don't let the door PATCO yo' ass as you go, Teach!

joe, I AM one of those "wor... (Below threshold)

joe, I AM one of those "working people." And I wish I got half the pay and benefits of those "working people" you're championing.

My contempt is for the unions who exploit their members, using their numbers and their money for their own political gain. And when the political gain of those unions is at the expense of the taxpayer, as it is in this case, it's even worse.


[. . .] for those of us who... (Below threshold)

[. . .] for those of us who happen to see unions as groups of people who hard-working Americans taxpayers also.

I see them as exactly what they are = lazy, parasitic extortionists who only work hard to hang onto the money they've already extorted and as animals who should try doing their jobs...and working to earn their living. If they put half as much effort into their jobs as they into robbing the people paying them they might be worth half of what they currently make. I doubt that though- maybe 1/4.

I live in one of only four ... (Below threshold)

I live in one of only four states in this country that are considered "solvent". Arkansas is a "Right to Work" state. Does one thing have to do with the other? Possibly... More than likely. I am not sure of the other three states.

I also heard on Huckabee last night (thanks Gov. Huckabee for leaving a MAJOR budget surplus when you left office) that these teachers get $57 contributed by the state for every $1 that they contribute to their pensions. FIFTY-SEVEN to ONE!!

A new Rasmussen poll shows ... (Below threshold)
jim m:

A new Rasmussen poll shows 48% back the governor and a full 50% want their own state government to reduce payroll expense by 10% over the next ten years by either salary cuts or layoffs.

Since that poll was taken on the 18th-19th we can conclude that the unions attempt at intimidation is not working.






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