A while ago, Kos over at Daily Kos decided to “clean house” and get rid of a some of the slightly more insane barking moonbats that have taken up residence there.
Apparently he missed a few (and it’s understandable, there being such a high percentage), because one of Charles’ readers over at Little Green Footballs spotted this little gem.
I started to read some of this dip’s so-called “investigation” and “reasoning” about how Karl Rove was behind the forged Texas Air National Guard memos that brought down Dan Rather, but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it. The one thing that convinced me that it could NOT have been a GOP sting was this simple observation:
It is an incredibly poor plan that relies on the utter incompetence and stupidity of your opponent to succeed, and an incredibly stupid person who would put forth such a plan.
The TANG forgeries were so badly, flagrantly fake that they should have been dismissed within minutes by anyone with the slightest clue. And they were — not a single one of the experts CBS called upon would give them the slightest hint of authenticity or respectability. But instead of being warned off by them, CBS (apparently blinded by their own political biases and lust for glory) ran with them anyway — and ended up devastating their own credibility instead.
Further, the source of the documents was a guy with a long-standing loathing of George W. Bush and a history of mental problems. That’s not saying that he couldn’t have come up with legitimate documents, but it certainly should have led to anything he came up with getting extra scrutiny.
Karl Rove is many things, but he’s simply not THAT stupid. By all rights, those TANG memos should have been recognized as fakes within minutes of their arrival by fax. And no amount of “spin” can turn those memos into some incredible Rovian conspiracy.
But for just a moment, let’s pretend that Rove did, indeed, engineer the whole thing. Who in their right mind would fire him? If he could pull that off, for God’s sake LET him run things! If he’s willing and able to do that kind of thing to CBS, imagine what he could do with, say, North Korea? China? The United Nations? (Dare I say it?) France?
Nah. Nobody short of Satan could pull off that kind of a coup, and for all the things Rove’s been accused of doing and being, I haven’t seen THAT one.
So the war’s all about oil, but it’s not all about oil?
It’s only about Iraq’s oil, that we could have gotten in a much easier fashion if we’d done what this one oil company in Texas did back during the Clinton administration?
What planet are you receiving these transmissions from?
JmaR wrote:
So once again we have two realities. I choose to believe the one that makes the most sense based on what I’ve watched unfold over the last 5 years.
It’s not surprising that you stuck your head squarely in your ass just when GWB got elected. I guess you only feel safe when a President is ejaculating on girls not much older than his daughter while selling military secrets to the Red Chinese and studiously ignoring terrorism.
Sue,
Are you sure you’re not just disappointed Slick Willy didn’t bust his nut onto your dress….or possibly somewhere more intimate? I mean, maybe it’d wind up in the Smithsonian.
Ugh. I don’t like rapists. It would figure that such a misogynistic piece of rancid rapist filth would be your hero.
You got so turned on by thinking about Billy Jeff’s weiner that you forgot what the topic was. Karl Rove. How did we get so far away from that, JmaR?
Sue, we report you decide.
Bush:
War, Death and Destruction
Record Debt
9/11, Terrorism and Fear
Fundamentalist Crusaders influencing policy
Destruction of church/state separation
Domestic Divisiveness
Propaganda, Lies and a Supine Media
Environmental Disaster
Death of Democracy
Clinton:
Relative Peace
Prosperity, Massive Surplus
A Brain
A Blowjob
The Republicans are destroying this country, I hope you’re proud.
JmaR wrote:
Clinton:
Relative Peace
First WTC attack – Feb 29, 1993
Attempted assassination of GHW Bush in Kuwait by Iraqi agents – April 14, 1993
U.S. troops fighting in Somalia – October-December 1993
Two U.S. diplomats gunned down in Pakistan – March 8, 1995
Oklahoma City bombing – April 19, 1995
Khobar Towers bombing – June 25, 1996
U.S. bombs Iraq for treaty violations – September 3, 1996
U.S. Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania bombed – August 7, 1998
U.S. bombs Iraq for WMD violations – December 16, 1998
U.S. military operations in Bosnia – 1999-2000
U.S.S. Cole attack off the coast of Yemen – October 12, 2000
This doesn’t even begin to include the various kidnappings and attacks against individual U.S. citizens during that same time period.
Nor does it include the TWA Flight 800 explosion on July 17, 1996, even though it probably should.
This is just for the first tidbit of stupidity you posted. Getting into the failures of the Clinton economy would take too long for one night’s research; I’ll just leave you with “dot com bubble burst” as food for thought.
Good night and sleep tight.
Sue,
If you want to go ahead and add up the death tolls and the injuries (overall carnage) under each President I think you’ll be embarassed (and Dubya still has plenty more time to spread his joy across the world). If you only want to do so for U.S. soldiers I think you’ll be horrified.
It’s not even close. You support the warmongers and the chickenhawks, not me. You’re delusional and disgraceful.
Clinton:
Rapist
Bush:
Not a rapist
You idolize a rapist and adulterer, and you have the nerve to call me disgraceful. Why do you hate women so much? What inadequacy are you compensating for?
Republicans appointed a special prosecutor and spent the equivalent of the GDP of several small nations to nail Clinton and all they got was a silly blowjob. If he was guilty of rape, he’d be doing time. Unlike the Rove investigation, they’ve already concluded the Bill Clinton investigations and rape, like all the other phony smears that never stood up to scrutiny, never happened. Sorry Suzie.
Bush:
Murderer
War criminal
Thief
Liar
I never claimed to “idolize” Clinton….that was you just making shit up, in typical wingnut fashion. However, next to Dubya, Richard Nixon looks like a petty criminal. We won’t even make the comparison between Clinton and Bush…..even true conservatives would have to admit that’s no contest. Keep clinging to the rapist lie though, makes you seem even more ridiculous.
Why do you hate the truth so much? Why do you hate democracy so much?
Your hero Bush has reached an all-time low in approval ratings……your circle of delusional nitwits is shrinking fast. Yikes!
Posted by: JmaR list (July 27, 2005 09:49 PM)
C’mon, JmaR. Now this is just silly. Broad, inaccurate generalizations, selective/cherry picked inclusions (debatable or not), non-contextual declarations, and extensive omissions does not a serious argument of administrations make. It would take many pages to discuss your points and, clearly, few have such time. The random insertion of some ridiculous talking points does not advance your argument.
RE: JmaR’s post (July 28, 2005 09:59 AM)
Bush:
Murderer
War criminal
Thief
Liar
That’s it. This thread has frayed. And you have gone off the deep end. JmaR, this is moonbat material.
Yeah, AD, he lost the argument quite a few posts ago when he refused to take me up on my offer of evidence and resorted to ad hominem instead. Typical barking moonbat tactics – if your opponent offers overwhelming evidence, go for one or a combination of the following:
1) Ad hominem
2) Move the goalposts
3) Change the subject
You see how far JmaR strayed from the subject of Karl Rove and when I nailed him down on the “Bush lied people died” meme he gave up and called me names.
Drivel,
To be honest, I was stooping to Sue’s level, she only seems to understand nastiness, name-calling and generalizations. However I stand by every claim and you can call me whatever you like, it doesn’t change the truth.
On a more serious note and in regard to our earlier debate about “It’s about the oil”, Bob Herbert makes my point exactly in today’s column:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/opinion/28herbert.html?hp
Sue,
Once again, you won the argument in your own bubble world. Come on out when you’re ready to deal with reality. There is far too much evidence to change my opinion.
Bush:
Murderer
War Criminal
Thief
Liar
Sorry Drivel, sometimes you gotta call it what it is. I plan on continuing to do just that.
I, for one, blame JmaR’s inability to stay on topic and adherence to leftist talking points on Karl Rove and his diabolical mind control rays.
That’s why they’re really anxious to get the space shuttle working again. Rove ordered NASA to fix the dead spots in mind ray signal coverage.
Quick, JmaR, put a wet towel over your head!
Sue,
While you continue to either lie or be deceived, your country is dying. Sad is the human being that is blinded by their political ideology, dangerous is the human being that cannot see the truth. I find you the most loathesome of characters.
Bob Herbert, like many other reporters at the New York Times, has problems with the truth.
He bleats the same old tired memes that you and thousands of other deceived hivedwellers do:
Quagmire
Blood for Oil
Bush Lied People Died
JOOOOOOOS!
Empire!
I wonder how much his salary is. I could be rolling in money. I could ask the NYT to hire me for half of Herbert’s pay, then just do what he does – rewrite emails from the DNC mailing lists and submit them as my own.
Sue,
I think you’ve got all of them correct except the JOOOOOS! part. That I do not understand. Can you fill me in on this particular rightwing talking point, sincerely, I have no idea what the signifigance is? Why does the right always trot out anti-semitism?
RE: JmaR’s post (July 28, 2005 10:22 AM)
An Op-Ed from the NYTimes!?
Heck, why not just direct me to The Nation‘s Katrina vanden Heuvel or the DNC’s Howard Dean?
Excerpt the facts of interest and maybe we’ll go from there.
I would take Dean over any of today’s Democrats with the possible exception of Barbara Boxer, so that gives you an idea of where I stand. When politicians speak the truth, the Republicans must destroy them (although I consider the Dems that have chastised Dean as directly working against democracy as well). The right has put much effort behind smearing Dean and painting him as a nutjob but it’s just another smear job. The “scream” was incredibly overblown and we saw it on TV almost as much as we saw the diversionary stories of Michael Jackson, Missing in Aruba, Runaway Bride, etc. when FAR MORE SERIOUS issues are being ignored. Liberal media my ass.
Dean has balls and he’s not afraid to call a liar a liar and a fraud a fraud. As far as your fearless leaders are concerned he (like the U.N.) is an impediment to their goals and he must be destroyed. He’s not the most eloquent guy for sure but that may be what I like about him most. We don’t need Democarts that blather, pander and enable the Republican destruction of our country, we need truth tellers. I emailed Dean and told him to keep on truckin but to watch his back, he’s a prime candidate to be “disappeared”. Maybe he thinks I’m nuts, but his opponents don’t screw around. Call me what you like, but I passionately stand behind my words.
Drivel,
As for the NY Times editorial page, it’s one of the few places in the mainstream media where you can find the truth. Disprove Herbert’s claims. Disprove Krugman’s claims. Your proof to the contrary will be no less on the fringes as you claim mine to be.
I tried to come in here and keep things clean but Sue had to drag it into the mud, so let the mud fly. Claim victory all day but you won’t see any quit from my side.
Where did I get the “JOOOOOOS!” and implication of anti-semitism from? From Bob Herbert’s own words, of course. Excerpt from the article you linked, JmaR:
The neoconservatives were beating the war drums on Iraq as far back as the late 1990’s.
Iraq was supposed to be a first step. Iran was also in the neoconservatives’ sights. The neocons envisaged U.S. control of the region (and its oil), to be followed inevitably by the realization of their ultimate dream, a global American empire.
The war may be going badly, but the primary consideration is that there is still a tremendous amount of oil at stake, the second-largest reserves on the planet. And neocon fantasies aside, the global competition for the planet’s finite oil reserves intensifies by the hour.
Herbert, like his liberal pundit brethren, would never get caught actually using the word “Jew” in reference to a cabal of powerful men with surnames like Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, and Podhoretz who supposedly want to take over the world and are using Svengali-like control over a WASP figurehead to do so.
“Neoconservative” sounds much less anti-semitic than “Jew,” don’t you think?
JmaR wrote:
I tried to come in here and keep things clean but Sue had to drag it into the mud, so let the mud fly.
Here’s the first “dragging” that occurred in the exchange between you and me.
I would take Dean over any of today’s Democrats with the possible exception of Barbara Boxer, so that gives you an idea of where I stand.
Holy shit.
Never mind, you win. My parents told me never to argue with fanatics.
RE: JmaR’s post (July 28, 2005 02:03 PM)
Dean’s “scream” was entertaining and a foolish political misstep… nothing more. The Dean nuttiness that concerns me may be most exemplified by the following:
“The president and his right-wing Supreme Court think it is ‘okay’ to have the government take your house if they feel like putting a hotel where your house is…” [7/23/05 – H. Dean speaking the College Democrats of America – CNSNews]
Um, maybe Mr. Dean would like disclose to his audience that it was the “left-wing” (Justices John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer combined with Justice Anthony Kennedy) that supported this abomination of eminent domain abuse and not the “right” one. Or that Mr. Bush had not appointed any of these justices to the court. See, it’s these huge misstatements (or outright lie in this case) that concern me. His rants are well-documented and this is just one of many. I’d rather not stray anymore about Dean. He is a caricature of politics gone bad despite any merit he might have earned at the state level. I was not a constituent of his so I don’t know if he has always been a lightening rod or if the attention has muddled his message.
Dean will not be “disappeared”. He is one of the Right’s most powerful assets. I wish his bullhorn was bigger.
Incidentally, who do you think my “fearless leaders” are? I don’t support people. I support policy. There is a difference though one votes for the messenger. I am an equal opportunity critic.
Sue,
As I wrote earlier, the neoconservatives are the signatories on the PNAC mission statement. Who the hell cares if they’re Jewish, Cambodian or smurfs. They openly advocate using the U.S.’s military might to project global hegemony. These are their words not mine and this was long before 9/11. The fact that most of them are Jews has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. Repeat….NOTHING. Your camp has spun another beauty here, but whatever lights your candle babe.
How is making the claim that Iraq was about oil dragging the discourse in the mud? Just because you don’t believe it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It certainly wasn’t an attack on you. Lighten up there Francis, your guilt is showing.
Just a minute there AD, one man’s liberal is another man’s conservative and visa-versa. Three of the five Justices that you mention who voted in favor of eminent domain recently were Republican appointed and that is a fact. Once Roberts gets apporved it’ll be 7 of 9 appointed by R’s…we’ll see how “activist” things get on the Supreme Court. BTW, I truly feel that the political discourse has been pulled so far to the right by the extremists in the Republican party that many of the public officials that would once have been considered “moderate” are now considered fringe left. The entire body politic has to be pushed back toward the rationale ceneter where compromise is possible.
So AD, are you telling me that there are policies
and positions on both side that you support? If that’s true, or if there are policies from the current administration that you DO NOT support, I’d love (for the sake of truth and understanding) to know what they might be?
The appointees were expected to be Right but turned out not to be in most of their decisions – hence their generally accepted pigeonholing to the left or right of center. Rehnquist, Scalia, and Thomas are considered the most strict Constitutionalists and in this day-and-age, that translates to “Right”. O’Conner and Kennedy would be considered moderate with the “Left” filling out the ledger.
I disagree with your too-Right characterization. New law continues to be written from the bench IMO which is antithetical to the Constitution. Most law should remain at the State level except in the most explicit cases defined by the original Articles and its Amendments. De novo legislation is problematic.
Against current policies of the administration:
Border and Immigration
Trade (e.g. NAFTA, CAFTA)
Budget/Deficit (more of a Congressional issue than an Administrative one)
Expansion of Deism as policy motivator (this one has been generally acceptable but there have been missteps)
Energy policy modification inadequate
Those are huge issues off the top of my head. There most certainly are others. Except for trade issues, I do not see the Democratic (or other) party suggesting anything better; consequently, they won’t get my support in the foreseeable future.