(Author’s note: I was initially reluctant to post this piece, slamming a veteran with a respectable war record, on Memorial Day. But Kerry himself brought up the topic on Memorial Day Weekend, so I believe it’s fair game.)
Well, it’s been about 18 months since the last presidential election, and finally John Kerry is fighting back against the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, who (rightly or wrongly) are given much credit (or blame) for keeping him from becoming president. Kerry is coming out swinging, rebutting specific allegations of theirs with new evidence and new witnesses.
Senator Kerry, let me speak for a great number of people: give it up.
There are exactly two ways you can definitively settle this matter. The first is to sue the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth for slander and libel. Sure, as a public figure, the burden will be great, but if you have such conclusive evidence proving they are lying, take them to the cleaners.
There second way is even simpler: simply sign the Form 180 that releases your service record. And not the one that releases it to your pet historian and pet journalists only, but to the general public. You sought to lead the American people, and appear to be considering another run. You made your record a key element of your campaign last time. Don’t we have the right to know the full details, good and bad, and judge you accordingly?
So file the suit, sign the form, or STFU, Senator Kerry. And if you do run again, kindly spend a slight fraction of your time discussing some of the more notable accomplishments of your life from the last 30 years. There’s gotta be SOMETHING you’ve done, isn’t there?
(Author’s note 2: In all fairness, Kerry has one achievement as Senator that is, indeed, praiseworthy. He was essential in the Senate investigation into the Bank of Credit & Commerce International, and it always puzzled me why Kerry spent so much time talking about Viet Nam and never mentioned this feather in his cap.)
ZZ claims he is not a lawyer, but simply asserts the jfk meeting with enemy officials while a reserve officer was proper and legal. just his word, no other back up of his assertion. As for jkk’s medals, who wrote the citations? jfk has not made a full disclosure of his record because he has something to hide, otherwise why all the dodging? But his miraculous 90 day tour is the basis of his legitimacy.
Military service is not a requirement to hold office. Lying and exaggerating about ones record is a character flaw and a serious disqualification for a serious and honest voter. I’m sure zz believes jfk was taking Captain Willard up the Nung River on a secret CIA mission to waste a rogue Colonel Kurtz. The reality based voters just figured him out to be a sleazy gigolo of questionable honor, integrity and patriotism.
So many distractions have been posted since the beginning of this thread. I would like to go back to the start and something ZZ said early on.
You can not just say, “Waaaaahhhh, they lied.” without proof. Kerry and his supporters are clearly gathering that proof and preparing to nail those liars to the wall. AFTER and only after proof is gathered, and proof that will stand up in a court of law, can John Kerry sue those liars for every cent they have.
Now ZZ first a question are you accusing the Swift Boat Vets of being liars?
If so can you please tell me what you base that accusation on?
I followed this whole thing very closely during the election. The best I can come up with is this.
John Kerry was a highly decorated LT who served for 4 months in Vietnam. Since that time he has been caught lying about serving in Cambodia on numerous occasions (there is no doubt this was an intentional lie due to his choice of words). He has been caught lying about taking “secret agents” on top secret missions into Cambodia. He has been caught lying about attending a meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War where the suggestion was made to assassinate several US Senators. The man who made that suggestion Scot Camil is still a friend of Kerry’s; served as a volunteer on Kerry’s presidential campaign and publicly stated during the campaign that he has no regrets about making the proposal to assasinate US Senators and would do it again.
Now either the man John Kerry who I have just described is a liar or:
Over 2 dozen highly decorated men who served full tours or multiple tours of duty in Vietnam and have first hand accounts of John Kerry’s actions are liars.
None of these men are politicians, many are Republicans but several are Democrats. They have all since lived honorable lives. Many with long military careers including admirals and other high ranking officers. These men had nothing to gain other than preventing the election of John Kerry. They have much to loose both personally and professionally.
So you tell me is it more likely that one self serving politician running for president is lying or 2 dozen war heroes are lying?
Now either you already know everything I just mentioned and have no need to see the links that will open your eyes or or you are completely clueless to what kind of man John Kerry really is.
ed and Rob in LA,
If you really want to get angry try reading, How Would a Patriot Act?
It details how our constitution is being torn to shreds. Maybe you can direct your anger at those who are ruining what this country stands for.
You might just learn something.
Ugly,
You seemed to have forgotten the other veteran making accusations who got caught in many lies, and decided he had nothing more to say. Perhaps you remember his name – seeing how you followed it so closely. So I have to say that I would believe JK before I would believe those who for personal gain (they were selling a book) would accuse a soldier of lying about his record. I would like to know as well, who is more likely to be lying, those who actually served with JK on his boat or those who did not serve with him?
Hmmmm.
Frankly every 40 years or so come the well intentioned accusations that the Constitution is being shredded over this or that. The fact is that the composition of the SOCTUS does change the interpretation of the Constitution, but until and unless there is an Constitutional Amendment, then there’s no real chance of the Constitution actually being shredded.
As time passes and the imperatives that drove differing interpretations of the Constitution change or disappear, then the Constitution rebounds to it’s previous incarnations.
This is why Lincoln could effectively remove the SCOTUS from power without lasting effect. This is why FDR was able to run roughshod over many civil liberties during WWII.
Once circumstances change, then the imperatives that drive interpretations of the Constitution similarly change. Thus I have little regard either for or against the Patriot Act because it is ultimately temporary. Once the evident danger has passed or be substantially reduced, then there will be calls for reforming or repealing the Patriot Act and replacing it with something more useful over the long term rather than the short term.
Ultimately the genius of the Founding Fathers is proven repeatedly through the centuries.
Hmmm.
Actually this mechanism, the “shredding” of the Constitution by Amendments, is one of the things that concern me over the legalisation of illegal aliens. The fact that nobody really knows either how many illegal aliens there are, or how many there will be, that will be made legal citizens fills me with doubt.
It makes me doubt because the probable effect of these new citizens seeking to immigrate their parents, spouses, children and relatives. Even if the number is as low as 20 million illegals then the potential is for the immigration of 2 parents, 1 spouse and perhaps 2 children per illegal. This would vastly increase the total number immigrated and eventually made into citizens from the initial 20 million to 120 million.
Given just 10-20 years this entire number could possibly become legal voters, which would equal the total number of voters in the 2004 national elections. Yet the possible impact on state and local elections would be much greater as the new citizens spread out across the country.
It would only take 2/3rds of the states voting for a Constitutional Amendment to make it law. And there are no limits to what can be put into a Constitutional Amendment.
The potential for mischief is vast.
Wow Ed, Jay Tea, and all,
This is the guy you put all your faith in? A person attached to a known liar O’Neal!
“Bruce Kesler was a Marine sergeant in Vietnam from 1969-70. In 1971, he founded the Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace, which John O’Neill”
To think when I first logged in hear I thought we could have a rational discussion. I now see why it wasn’t.
O’Neal! I can’t stop laughing now!
ha ha ha
ho ho ho
ha ha ha
O’NEAL…Wow! And even the top part of Bruce Kesler’s article was a lie– because he should have revealed his O’neal connection from the get-go.
EVERYONE on this planet knows any crownies of O’Neils can be trusted as far as you can throw him.
Hey, Heidi’s back now. Should I go get her too?
Geez, ZZ. It took you THIS LONG to get around to Googling up some dirt on Kessler? And make up your mind — is it O’Neill or O’Neal?
It all boils down to the “shoot the messenger” tactic, though. My key point remains the same: if John Kerry did what he 1) repeatedly said he did, and 2) repeatedly promised he’d do, and release his full records, the whole discussion would evaporate.
Instead, he wants to keep re-fighting it.
No, that’s not entirely accurate. He wants to keep rewriting the old fight so he comes out the winner. It’s the Kerry way. Unfortunately, there are those of us who actually remember things as they happened, not as he tells us they did.
J.
Posted by: Jay Tea at May 29, 2006 07:05 PM
Yes, it did take a long time. I did tell you I was very busy. But…if you like to talk about re-writing history, then you shouldn’t be suporting anyone like Kesler or John O’Neill because both of them have their own history of making up many versions of events.
Even Nixon has O’Neill on tape lying his a$$ off about Cambodia.
ha ha ha
Now this is just too funny!
ZZ,
In your first post, you say JK was an “honorable soldier”. If you are going to defend the guy, at least get it right what the hell he did. He was in the Navy, therefore a SAILOR, not a SOLDIER. I know, watching his little home movie you got caught up in thinking he must be a soldier just like in Platoon or even better for obvious reasons, Apocalypse Now. I’m active duty and even before I ever heard of the Swifties for Truth, I had many doubts and questions about his service and still do to this day. Also, on your great list of Dem vets, you forgot to mention Harkin as saying he flew in combat when in fact he didn’t. He was just a repo pilot. Repo means reposition i.e. fly from point A to point B. If you are going to argue something, at least be honest about what you are talking about.
I noticed that ed came up with a whole litany of irrelevant reasons not to read the book I recommended. Perhaps just taking a moment and reviewing the first thirty pages of How Would a Patriot Act? will get you to better understand why your conservative credentials are no more legitimate than mine and vice versa. The book has nothing to do with adding new amendments to the constitution. It has everything to do with Justice Scalia and Bob Barr (far from a leftwing “liberal nutjobs)” describing President Bush’s policy decisons akin to a monarch’s.
I agree there is a genius to what the founding fathers developed and explained in the Federalist Papers. However, the fact remains that the Bush adminstration has declared the “war on terrorism” the “long war” as well. So the question becomes, when will the appropriate time arrive when this war will be declared over?
Your politics are your decision, but as an American you should not be hesitant to discover what is being done on “your behalf”.
Hey, Jt…so sorry for the last snicker. I really thought you quoted credible people so I was quite shocked to see the quality of your sources.
Posted by: LCDR J. MacKay at May 29, 2006 07:18 PM
Soldier, Commander, Sailor, Airman…I know it means something to you, LCDR J MacKay, but frankly what those titles mean to me is simple. It means anyone–anyone who serves–even if they do not hold my political beliefs deserves respect, kindness, and appreciation for what they have given to our country, perios.
Period. (sorry about that typo)
Wow! What a waste of space on this thread.
For those of you who are blindly defending Senator Kerry, please explain why, if the SBVT’s are, “liars,” why has Kerry continued to refuse to release his records, and PROVE them liars?
If Kerry’s record is so noble and perfect, why won’t he make it public?
Yes, I know, you are going to answer again, with the lie that he has made all his records public, right?
Let him run again. He will not get past his lies, as the SBVT’s will continue to point them out.
I’m beginning to wonder if ZZ is actually Scooter from the Peace Moonbeam Chronicles…
ZZ
Your still here? man for being busy you sure spend a lot of time defending the indefensible! Kerry has taken you for a long and boring ride, keep slinging the BS ZZ.
Now now guys be more forgiving of this young “dude” ZZ. Someone has to takeup for old “horseface”. Also I think “dude” ZZ keeps sKerry supplied with band-aids as his “war” wounds have still not healed. Old “dude” ZZ is also trying to show sKerry how to use MapQuest so he will not get lost on his way back to Cambodia.( I know it is not even close to Christmas yet but Skerry has a hard time remenbering where was on a certain date so they are planing ahead.)
ZZ seems to be from the only “small” town with a computer lab that is open 24 hrs.
Oh what, I get it. Sorry ZZ, didn’t realize you are in college at a small college like, maybe, Berkley(sp?)?
Try talking to someone other than your professors ZZ. You might learn something new. I started out a Democrat myself. It didn’t take me long to figure out my teachers (in High School) had fed me a load of crap, at least one sides anyway. By my soph year of college I had figured out that most of the professors where interested in their view and their view alone. DOn’t try to use facts in your papers just spit out the information they supplied to you. (Wouldn’t want to think for myself, now would I?)
This really is funny.
It wouldn’t matter if the worst lying liar’s lying liar was telling lies about John Kerry because all anyone has to do is look at what John Kerry has said *himself*. It doesn’t really take any extra “info” to discredit him when it comes to Vietnam because he fully admits to Winter Soldier, the meetings in Paris, throwing away *someone elses* medals, and everything that came after.
No authority other than JFKerry needs to be vetted as reliable in order for the *fact* that he has *not* released his military records (he released *some* of them) to be known. He simply hasn’t done it.
We know he hasn’t because in those records will be a record of the military officers IQ evaluation… Bush’s IQ equivalent is public because Bush released his records. Is it possible that *someone* wouldn’t have compared Bush’s IQ to Kerry’s IQ during the last elections?
You know all this speculation that Kerry might have gotten a dishonorable discharge? I don’t think that’s it. If he did it would have been (probably) for his anti-war activity and he could spin that into a political boon.
I think he didn’t want his IQ scores released.
Whatever the case may be, the fact is that he said that he’d release his records and he hasn’t done it.
Hmmmm.
That’s actually a bit wrong I think.
I believe Kerry first ran for the House as a anti-war icon and protestor, and it didn’t work out for him. I believe when Kerry ran for public office again it was as a war hero rather than as an anti-war protestor.
So it’s very unlikely that Kerry would want himself permanently tarred with a bad conduct discharge.
Mystery Surrounds Kerry’s Navy Discharge
By THOMAS LIPSCOMB – Special to the Sun
http://www.nysun.com/article/3107
I frankly find it strange to this day that Kerry exalts Jimmmy Carter above all others. And it was President Jimmy Carter that was responsible for the executive order that forced the DOD to give officers discharged with other than Honorable Discharges a review process to “heal” their discharge status.
Synova wrote, “I think he didn’t want his IQ scores released.”
Hey, he was smart enough to marry a lot of money: TWICE.
How’s that spelled? Give me a ‘G’ … give me an ‘I’ ….. give me another ‘G’ …. give me an ‘O’ …
Hmmmm.
Frankly I couldn’t give a damn whether or not anybody else thinks I’m a conservative. I am a conservative but I’m neither going to apologise to you or even bother explaining my political ideology.
Personally I’ve read tracts like this before. And I pointed out for you that similar circumstances have happened in the past, both far and near. If you had availed yourself of some quiet reading on the things Lincoln had done during his wartime tenure I’m certain it would have raised your hackles like nothing else. After all suspending Habeus Corpus, conducting mass arrests of known or suspected Southern sympathizers with either no or trumped up evidence and reducing the Supreme Court to an irrelevant body are steps that even Bush hasn’t dared do yet.
And yet here we are 140+ years later and Habeus Corpus hasn’t been suspended in over a century. Here we are and mass arrests based on trumped up evidence are clearly illegal. Here we are over a century later and the Supreme Court has even more relevance than when it was first created.
And quite frankly I think that you, as a conservative, if you are really a conservative, should be wary of reading books by Glen Greenwald, who is a ultra-liberal as they get.
Or don’t you recognize propoganda when you see it?
Frankly there have been endless cycles where people have cried out in indignation that Liberty is dead, only to see such circumstances pass. Perhaps you consider me to be a fool for reserving judgement, conservatives do tend to be conservative after all.
Hmmmm.
Why do you always seem to include me in things that I have had no participation in? Have I brought up Bruce Kessler? No I haven’t. So direct your responses appropriately and stop being so sloppy.
give me an ‘L’…give me another ‘O’…sorry La Mano i just could not resist! hehe
It means anyone–anyone who serves–even if they do not hold my political beliefs deserves respect, kindness, and appreciation for what they have given to our country, perios.
-ZZ Revolution
Earlier ZZ
who have the same type of criminal & military history as GWB has.
ed,
Just so you know. Bush does claim that he has the right to imprison without habeas corpus. Read the AG’s and Justice Department’s (the Yoo memo) filiings. Even the Supreme Court dismissed their positions as garbage. So what does Bush do after getting slammed by the Supreme Court? He releases a “terrorist” from solitary and lets him go back home to Saudi Arabia. If he had a case, why weren’t charges filed? (National Security secrets is the stock in trade cover answer.)
I am familiar with Lincoln and his decrees during the Civil War. Legally, Lincoln was wrong. However, the United States was at war. Currently we are not in declared war. We are using military force – big difference. Still the Congress in 1863 granted Lincoln the right to suspend habeus corpus. Congress also did the same for President Grant in 1877
Like I said before, I don’t care about labels such as conservative or liberal.
Yes, the United States did manage to survive threats to its constitution, but those were generally due to a Congress that would not allow a president to claim absolute power. We have little of that type of guardianship from the power in party now.
Let me ask you a simple yes or no question: When Nixon said “When the President does it, that means it is not illegal.” Do you agree with that statement in light of Hamdi vs. Rumsfeld case and the Padilla case?
ed,
I don’t think you are reserving judgement. I think you are too timid to closely examine what really is happening in this country. Why don’t you try to read a little more yourself and then make some judgements after you have read what is relevant to today’s situation?
Posted by: John Irving at May 30, 2006 12:47 AM
Did Bush serve? That has yet to be proven. Records indicate that he never bothered showing up to complete his National Guard Duty.
Show me the money on that and I’ll show him respect. Until then, there is more substantiated evidence that George W. Bush was drunk, AWOL, and used his father’s Senatorial influence and money to get him that nice job in the NG that he didn’t complete.
Good try though. I thought you’d cry about the lack of respect to O’Neill who served. But I guess not even your side is proud of O’neill. He’s sort of the ugly wart that gets you in to see the doctor but turns everyone else off.
Btw, John…
If you’re implying that JK had a criminal history that is slander and libel. You have absolutely no prosecutorial evidence or even investigations that indicate he was ever indicted for criminal behavior or drunken behavior, for going awol, or for any activity outside the laws of our land. What you implied was a smear and unsubstantuated innuendo against John Kerry! Furthermore, you compared him to GWB who has court records against him. GWB also admitted to using cocaine which is against the law, and he admitted to hiding that information prior to 2000 and 2004 to protect his kids from the information that he was an illegal drug user. That has also been documented on tape with GWB’s own voice and own words in a confession to a journalist who chose to not release these interviews until after the election.
Stick to facts John, not innuendo and smear.
ZZ,
You’re becoming ZZZZZZZZZZZZ…..
JFKerry, better knows as JFKerry-Heinz, has ‘served’ for how many years in the Senate? In all that time, exactly what significant legislation has he WRITTEN?
Wow, what a guy. Loser then, loser now.
zz
Kerry admitted to war crimes for one! shot a vc in the back for 2 and dared to run for the presidency as if He was qualified for#3..
kerry rolled over and let the swift boat vets castrate him. This shows that he’s not much of a man let alone presidential material. Perfect for MA tho.
LeMano,
Do you know how to go to the gov’t website? Because if you do you’ll find lots of legislation that Kerry sponsored and/or co-sponsored. That’s a right-winged and untrue talking point.
Need the link?
LeMano,
I’m the most exciting thing that’s happened to this website in a long time. Why else would you all still be posting?
Posted by: moseby at May 30, 2006 02:21 PM
Not quite Moseby. I think that the campaign was poorly run and the smears by the Swifties wasn’t handled very well, but nontheless, Kerry was right when he said, “Wrong war, wrong time….”
So the answer to my question ZZ is you believe the word of one man over 2 dozen. Your partisan slip is showing.
Posted by: The Ugly American at May 30, 2006 08:45 PM
No, I believe ALL the people who were on John Kery’s swift boat over the one person who says the opposite.
But you’re right about one thing, the two dozen men who say he wasn’t or didn’t were partison Republicans who made it their duty to get back at him. Even if that included lying. They formed a group called the SBVT commonly known as the swiftboat liars for Bush, and so I absolutely chose to believe the people who were on the boat and the paperwork that I saw online that showed he deserved those medals and his commanders who said he served honorably.
The dozen or so you chose to believe are party hacks. Many of which have also been shown to be liars too.
However, enough of this nonsense anyways. It’s 2006 not 1968. What’s the Republican plan to get us out of the mess they’ve created? All they’re good for is lies and smears. I’m ready for real leadership and real government FOR the people instead of against the people.
That leadership will include honesty and integrity and leadership who will FIGHT to keep jobs here, food on our table, healthcare for all Americans, and who will stop giving handouts to the rich businesses and their CEO’s. I’m ready for people who really care for the living instead of put up a fake front of being compassionate conservatives while the average American is losing their job, their homes, and their lives just because greedy Republicans and their supporting CEO’s just value the $$$ instead of human lives.
Soldier, Commander, Sailor, Airman…I know it means something to you, LCDR J MacKay, but frankly what those titles mean to me is simple. It means anyone–anyone who serves–even if they do not hold my political beliefs deserves respect, kindness, and appreciation for what they have given to our country, perios.
I’ve noticed you trash Bush. Funny.
Did Bush serve? That has yet to be proven. Records indicate that he never bothered showing up to complete his National Guard Duty.
Provided one ignores pay stubs from the time period.
An honorable discharge from the Guard.
Any evidence of him, you know, going AWOL.
Take away those and, yes, you probably are right. I’m sure you can provide these “reports” that he went AWOL.
Show me the money on that and I’ll show him respect. Until then, there is more substantiated evidence that George W. Bush was drunk, AWOL, and used his father’s Senatorial influence and money to get him that nice job in the NG that he didn’t complete.
You can, of course, provide some evidence to back up the whole “going AWOL” thing. You know, that whole pesky “honorable discharge” is a bit of a sticking point in your story.
And I love that you call O’Neill a liar — but you buy the story of Bush getting preferential treatment which was championed by a pathological liar.
If you’re implying that JK had a criminal history that is slander and libel.
He committed crimes far worse than anything done at Abu Gharib, according to one John Kerry.
. You have absolutely no prosecutorial evidence or even investigations that indicate he was ever indicted for criminal behavior or drunken behavior, for going awol, or for any activity outside the laws of our land.
He met with the N. Vietnamese, illegally. He committed war crimes, according to his own testimony (fortunately, HE had political ties to save his ass).
What you implied was a smear and unsubstantuated innuendo against John Kerry!
Kerry’s own words are unsubstantiated — wait, it was said by Kerry, so yeah, it’s unsubstantiated.
GWB also admitted to using cocaine which is against the law, and he admitted to hiding that information prior to 2000 and 2004 to protect his kids from the information that he was an illegal drug user.
Feel free to provide proof of Bush saying that. Bush has refused to even discuss it.
Note how I’m not whining about your slandering Bush?
That has also been documented on tape with GWB’s own voice and own words in a confession to a journalist who chose to not release these interviews until after the election.
Again, some proof. Any.
Do you know how to go to the gov’t website? Because if you do you’ll find lots of legislation that Kerry sponsored and/or co-sponsored. That’s a right-winged and untrue talking point.
He obviously hasn’t done squat since he didn’t run on that, but on his brief military tour 30 years prior.
But you’re right about one thing, the two dozen men who say he wasn’t or didn’t were partison Republicans who made it their duty to get back at him.
And Kerry’s “buddies” are more believable? I think not.
They formed a group called the SBVT commonly known as the swiftboat liars for Bush
Amongst the whackjob left, yes. Of course, that same left thinks Bush is a fascist and Hillary is right-wing, so what they know is shaky.
However, enough of this nonsense anyways. It’s 2006 not 1968. What’s the Republican plan to get us out of the mess they’ve created? All they’re good for is lies and smears. I’m ready for real leadership and real government FOR the people instead of against the people.
Wow, way to take a stand. You’re FOR real leadership? Damn, that is gutsy.
You know, since the Dems want power, shouldn’t they express something that even remotely resembles a plan?
That leadership will include honesty and integrity and leadership who will FIGHT to keep jobs here
Actually, the last time the Dems had the WH, corporate corruption was at its apex. Scandals so massive that they have never been matched before.
food on our table, healthcare for all Americans, and who will stop giving handouts to the rich businesses and their CEO’s.
I could mention that Clinton helped Enron more than anybody in the US ever did. Hardly something that gives me faith in the Dems.
I’m ready for people who really care for the living instead of put up a fake front of being compassionate conservatives while the average American is losing their job, their homes, and their lives just because greedy Republicans and their supporting CEO’s just value the $$$ instead of human lives.
Unemployment is at historic lows. But don’t let reality slow ya down, Sparky.
-=Mike
Posted by: MikeSC at May 31, 2006 11:20 AM
Point A. Bush served according to you.
As long as you ignore the records that show he was not there and he missed his phsyicals. No big deal. All military personel are allowed to be now shows. It’s not just Bush. AWOL is a thing of the 18th century not this one.
Point B. Unemployment is at incredibly low lows.
Almost too good to be true considering the amount of people who are dropped from the statistics because they’ve been unemployed for so long that they no longer count. Don’t let that get in your reality sparky.
Point C. “I could mention that Clinton helped Enron more than anybody in the US ever did. Hardly something that gives me faith in the Dems.”
Sure sweety…let’s just get out the recent profit statments from enron and the oil companies to see if that crap passes the stink test.
Point D. Clinton and Democratic scandals
Scandals so massive that they have never been matched before. As long as you don’t count spying without warrent, torture, secret deals with energy companies behind closed doors, 9-11 committee scuttling, rendition, secret prisons across Europe, dipping in to the treasury dept. to pay for Social Security tours, paid propaganda with a gay guy masquerading as a reporter, Rove, Libby, Cheney, and Bush investigated and (Libby indicted–the VP’s assistand as well as the Prsident’s assistant!) Naw…nothing like these things are important. Bring back that blue dress again, please!!!
Point E. Now the plan thing…
Go ahead and fall back on the plan thing. The old Republican fall back line because “we’ve destroyed the country and we need Democats to save our asses thing” I know lots of plans that the majority party has scuttled for the last 2 1/2 years. The plans are of course there but the media and the Republican party doesn’t allow Democrats to have any say. But of course you know all that too, right?
—————————————————
Geez Mike…You’ve just shown 100% why most people in America now think of you guys as rubberstamping zombies–What’s that number again? 24% believe Bush is honest and 29% support Bush and even less than that trust Republicans and believe we’re on the right track! You keep on keeping on with that same plan you guys have.
ZZ Revolution and Oncall show the most working brain matter on this whole thread! Great job!
Actually, the enron profits are sitting nice and sweetly in the RNC’s war chest. So since Enron hasn’t made a profit since they helped Bush win office, let’s just check out their donations to the RNC and see if the RNC returned them to the employees who Enron stole from.