Today the Dow passed 11,900 for the first time ever.
Update: The Dow closed at 11,947.70.
Up, Up, and Away
About The Author
Kim Priestap
Wife. Mom. First and Second Amendment enthusiast. Gun owner. I train often. ***** He can't even run his own life, I'll be damned if he'll run mine.
“I think libs are just jealous of people who have worked to achieve their wealth.”
Ahhhh that would be incorrect Jason. Unlike you, we view this country as a whole and not just our own little families tucked away in surburbia. So no, we are not jealous of your wealth, we just think it would be nice if America’s leaders-the frat boy et al-could insure that more people share in that wealth that you like to proclaim that you have 😉
Now now Mitchell, in a spat of modesty, I’m not “in the service” except maybe the oft-forgotten Merchant Marines. Thank you though, and I do enjoy the work. I travel the world, play with huge engines and machinery, and get paid for it. It’s a bonus that I also happen to work on ships that keep the Navy supplied at sea (My last ship was the USNS Mount Baker, one of the older ammunition supply ships, my current ship is the USNS Saturn, one of the dry cargo supply ships). We keep the Navy “At sea”, so to speak.
If you would like more information, check out http://www.msc.navy.mil
or
http://www.sealiftcommand.com
Because of MSC, I’ve been to Djibouti, Africa (small country in the horn of Africa that’s currently in the middle of the Somalia-Ethiopa spat, US Military Base is located there in support of OEF), United Arab Emirates (Dubai, interesting place, extremely commerce-friendly, but still “ruled” in the real sense of the word, each Emirate having its own ruler), Bahrain (small tourist-friendly country off the coast of Qatar in the Persian Gulf, Michael Jackson was reported to be living there, the US Navy has a good-sized Morale, Welfare, and Recreational installation there)…and a few others.
I’ve sailed to many other countries (too many to list), islands, and territories as a function of sailing on the training ships from maritime academies (in the Pacific on the training ship from California Maritime Academy, my alma mater, and the Atlantic/Mediterranean with State University of New York’s Maritime College as my first job as an engineering watch officer).
Heh, sorry I tend to ramble on…..
A sure sign the economy is doing fine is that it took a sex scandal for the dems to perhaps take control of one of the House or Senate.
And dats the fact, jack.
Muriego and Lee are just pissed the economy is doing so well. All the lengthy posts and attempts to complicate the matter just make them look silly.
It’s pretty simple. We’re doing good. I blame Bush : )
“Multinational Corporations” is a term used by those who don’t know what one is, how it operates, or the contribution it makes to our economy and standard of living.
If there were no “multinational corporations,” our overseas earnings would be greatly diminished, or cost of goods greater, and therefore, a drag on economic growth we’ve had throughout our history.
Saying you’re against “multinational corporations” is like saying you’re against “demand and supply” or something else basic; that’s what makes it nonsensical.
You’d outlaw them, then. Brilliant. Without any proof for your fantastic conspiracy claims.
Typical lib. Don’t understand economics, doomed to wallow in your own failures. The rest of us are headin’ up. So, see ya later. Your choice.
Henry, thanks for that post. I wish I could see all those sights. I’ve more recently gone to C. America, and married a nice chica from Nicaragua. It is really a paradise down there despite the old Press. Very nice people. Few tourists. Gorgeous scenery. I wasn’t a “nature person” until I went down there. That’s as exotic as I’ve gotten so far.
..what is happening now is all about maximizing profits for multinational corporations..
…and as as result good things happen.
What an economy! we have 95.4% of Americans working in this country,And we also have 50% of Mexico working in this country.Thats some thing to brag about,by the way I’m very comfortably retired even though I only had a 10th grade education.Of course back then it was almost adequite.I worked very hard from carrying beef to so many dirty jobs until I finally bought my own business.Lee and Muirigo would’ nt understand no sense arguing.Bush has saved our economy with tax cuts,cuts that work every time they are tried.
It’s amazing that this is such a heated topic with the large amounts of comments… …and primarily good comments.
Although it’s just a number, and an American number at that, the DJIA does not reflect necessarily the wealth that has is occuring in other parts of the world, such as India and China.
That said, my question is – is the DJIA represented properly…
Source: http://www.fool.com/school/indices/djia.htm
Consumer Discretionary 6 20.0%
Consumer Staples 3 10.0%
Energy 1 3.3%
Healthcare 2 6.7%
Industrials 6 20.0%
Information Tech 4 13.3%
Materials 3 10.0%
Telecomm. Services 2 6.7%
As I mentioned, it’s a U.S. number, so of the high-cap companies that are listed, are they the correct ones?
In my opinion, yes.
Snowball–I think the DJIA is ok. I’m more interested in small caps since that is the “farm team” that sends us the big ones. But with the dynamism comes volatility.
The big value companies have nice earnings and stability. That’s why they’re finally getting their day in the sun.
Mitchell, I can relate on a stop to Quepos, Costa Rica on the Cal Maritime training ship, TS Golden Bear. Just nearby Quepos is a rain forest, and we also stopped on Cocos Island (owned by Costa Rica), also a protected area.
by the way, Imperial, brewed in Costa Rica, is one of the best beers in the world. I charge any of you to disagree. =-)
Why is Mexico and Colombia like they are and why is Sweden and canada as they are?
Are you really sure you want to pick Sweden and Canada as your shining examples? I seem to recall that BOTH COUNTRIES just threw out their Liberal Governments recently.
Mitchell @ October 12, 2006 10:01 PM
Agreed. Small business in America is achieving leaps and bounds in efficiency, productivity and innovation.
Amen snowballs. Big evil “corporations” aren’t the ones who promote jobs, it’s the small startups and small business that choose to expand even just a little are the job creators. The big corporations actually diminish jobs because the big corporations are most likely unionized, which minimizes the overall job market there. Companies are free to hire when they don’t have the added burden of costs that unions give (and I’m not just talking pay, I’m also talking about legal fees resulting from negotiating contracts as well as lack of efficiency…to quote an exceptional movie, The Sand Pebbles, a phrase used about the chinamen “It’s his rice bowl”-Steve McQueen’s character tried to shave himself in the morning, but all the other Navy guys looked at him like he was evil because of the Chinaman barber….”it’s his rice bowl”).
First…we need to make lobbying basically illegal. An indirect passage of money from a Corporation to a lobbyist to a politician IS NOT free speech….its bribery and influence peddling.
A wonderful dream, but considering both parties benefit from soft money, it ain’t gonna happen real soon.
We need single payer health care. We are the only developed nation with out it. We pay over $10,000 a year for health insurance and other countries pay $5,000 and have better outcomes.
Oh, lord, you’ve never suffered under the NHS have you? I have, trust me…you think a one-hour wait in the doctor’s surgery is bad? Try waiting for several WEEKS to get an appointment! Better outcomes my left nut.
Americans may go to Canada/Mexico for cheaper drugs, but Canadians come here for their important medical procedures.
We need to drop the rate on social security to 3% and get rid of the cap. This along with rolling the VA medical system, meducare and medicaid together will pay for a single payer system.
Better yet, we need put the Social Security back ON THE BUDGET, and allow taxpayers to invest part of their SS into their own retirement plans.
I prefer to do away with it entirely, and take that SS money and put it in my IRA. I know I’ll get a much better rate of return on it.
We need to walk away from GATT, NAFTA and the WTO. Ross Perot was absolutly right. The big sucking sound is happening…our jobs and money are all going overseas never again to be invested in our country and its people.
Tariffs need to be re-instituted.
I don’t feel qualified to discuss the nuances of these issues, so I’ll let them stand.
Unions need to be empowered not weekened.
Unions are so empowered these days that they are starting to bankrupt their employers. When
you can get paid to not work, I think that’s some real f–ing empowerment:
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
Eductation has to be prime. We need to invest much more in education. Head Start, day care and and work training programs properly done repay society much more then we invest. College loans need to be easier and college costs need to be less.
Each year we allocate more and more money to education, and get less and less for it. Part of the problem is (ahem) the Teacher’s Unions. Much of that money is going to their salaries, and they aren’t giving us our money’s worth. There’s a reason private and home-schooling rates are up. Some of you here can’t even spell properly (and I’m talking about consistantly, not a typo here and there).
Have you looked at the default rates of college loans? College loans are pretty easy to get, they just aren’t being paid off.
I agree that college costs should be less, but tell that to the administrations and faculty who demand more money to do less in class. State colleges are less expensive than private ones anyway, so if that’s the issue, go there. There are scholarships abound for just about anyone, if you know where to look.
Taxes on the wealthy need to be returned to at least the Clinton era rates.
At least? Why stop there? Why don’t you roll them back to the Ford/Carter era? Business was really booming back then.
But before you disparage my ideas think back to the last time we had policies like now that you advocate and how it ended up in the Great Depression…
Sorry, that doesn’t wash. The primary culprit of the Great Depression here was bad stock market practices, with wild speculation and buying on high margins. Practices that do not exist today. High tarrifs (didn’t you advocate tarrifs up above)hurt international trade and agriculture the most. (Dust Bowl, anyone?) Weath disparity was MUCH MUCH greater than it is even now…there was virually no middle class to speak of. And then, finally, the Crash itself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
then remember how FDR instituted policies as I mention and the middle class worker saw his income and security rise substantially.
From same URL:
These reforms (together with relief and recover measures) are called by historians the First New Deal. It was centered around the use of an alphabet soup of agencies set up in 1933 and 1934, along with the use of previous agencies such as the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, to regulate and stimulate the economy. By 1935, the “Second New Deal” added Social Security, a national relief agency the Works Progress Administration (WPA), and, through the National Labor Relations Board a strong stimulus to the growth of labor unions. Unemployment fell by two-thirds in Roosevelt’s first term (from 25% to 9%), but then remained stubbornly high until 1942.
9% is still pretty high. Note the year: 1942. Hmm…what were we doing in 1942? Hm…
While the worker programmes did some good, the overall depression hung through all of his term in office. It was, ironically, a world war which caused production to rise and productivity to increase again.
Next look at all the other third world countries and all the democracies of Europe and the world and ask which have polcies that resemble the republicans and which have policies that resemble what I and many progressives advocate.
Most of Europe have socialist governments and policies, and most of them have high unemployment, bad health care, lower standards of living, higher taxes, more government regulation than you could ever hope to get from Republicans, and lower birth rates. Most third-world countries are run by self-appointed autocratic regimes. So, this is what your progressives are advocating? No thanks.
And, Sweden and Canada just tossed their Liberal leaning governments, so your two shining examples were poorly chosen.
By the way, those jobs in the FDR programmes were, you know, low-skilled labour jobs…you know, the ones that illegal aliens do today? Hard labour, and the pay wasn’t that great, but at least you didn’t starve. The jobs weren’t exactly, you know, like being in a business office or anything.
Plus they were government jobs, and they were not permanant jobs either. But, if it’s that or standing in a queue for soup…
Thank you James. That about covers it. Any of you lefties want to dispute any of the above information?
Good comments James Cloninger,
The primary culprit of the Great Depression here was bad stock market practices.
And, don’t forget that there was no FDIC then either, so when the run upon the banks happened, it was a crushing final blow. A lot has changed since then, in spite of what some folks have been saying, and even going so far as stating that today’s economy can be compared to the pre-depression years.
“mun-go”(linkman) if it is so damn bad here why are there 12,000,000 Mexicans here. You are frigging dumber then dirt.
Posted by: jhow66
Because corporations want them here because they benefit from the cheap labor. And thus the explanation why a completely Republican controlled government has done NOTHING to address the problem of illegal immigration because while they tell you, their SUCKER VOTERS, to your silly gullible face that they care about the illegal immigrant problem they are getting money behind their backs from the corporations that control them and have no interest in really addressing your concerns. Hey JHow what’s it like to be a butt monkey pawn for the Corporatist Republican Party…must suckkkk hey???
muirgeo:
“bombs & corporate welfare” vs “people & infrastructue”
Bombs protect us!
Corporate welfare protects jobs and provides profits for dividends to stockholders!
Money to the sick, lame, and lazy is money down a rabbit hole!
Infrastructure is a good thing, but usually ignored by both parties.
BTW, corporations are not things, they are people.
Posted by: USMC Pilot
“Bombs protect us!” Hmmm …..this is a little like Homer saying, ” Donuts make Homer happy!” and thinking you’ve made a good point as to why everyone should eat more and more donuts.
Then you go on to justify corporatism which by definition makes you a fascist. You follow that with a plea for Social Darwinism and end it with the creme de la creme of bizarreness telling us that corporations are people. Nice job Corky!!!
Put circus music here…duet duet do do dododle duet duet do do dododle…DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE..DUET DUET DO DO DODODODLE…..
Because of MSC……….I’ve been to Djibouti, Africa (small country in the horn of Africa that’s currently in the middle of the Somalia-Ethiopa spat, US Military Base is located there in support of OEF), United Arab Emirates (Dubai, interesting place
Posted by: Henry
You mean because of the US Tax Payer right??? I do appreciate you service but it bugs the crap out of me when some people justify their line of government work ie the MSC and assume it plays a higher role then say teachers working in public schools or social services workers helping poor children.
Saying you’re against “multinational corporations” is like saying you’re against “demand and supply” or something else basic; that’s what makes it nonsensical.
Posted by: Mitchell
Mr Straw-man did you say something again? In fact I NEVER said I was against Multinational Corporation did I? To remind you my point was I’m against Multinational Corporations influencing elections and policy while undermining democracy OF, BY and FOR the people.
To say you support Corporations buying off elections, policy and politicians ( which is what It seems you MAY be saying) is like saying you favor a corporatist government over a democracy.
Is that a good statement of where you stand? Or in fact is there actually some significant common ground called democratic principles on which we both can stand?
Any of you lefties want to dispute any of the above information?
Judging by the above pointless posts by muirgeo, I’m guessing “non”
(It’s French, see, mai quelle nuance, mai oui? Hon, Hon, Hon…)
Muirgeo….what kind of response was that? Did I ever claim to have a “higher calling”? I never mention anyone else.
You know what? Fuck you. My older sister is a high school math teacher in San Dimas, California (and she despises the teacher’s union, too). My younger sister is IN THE NAVY. She’s stationed on the USS Ronald Reagan and you aren’t worthy to lick the gunk out from between her toes.
field negro, people like me do view this country as a whole. But we have different mindsets. Did you even read my post, or just the first line of it? I don’t think people who have worked hard and made something of themselves should be forced to carry the lazy on their backs. I think charity should begin at home, not forced by the gov’t by heavily taxing the rich. Another shining example of system abuse– a single mom I know used her government assistance which was supposed to go toward her rent to buy her boyfriend a TV and stereo system for Christmas. She then went back to the gov’t and lied, saying that she tried to access her money and due to a computer error she did not receive her money. This is what my taxes are supporting?? Now I know there’s more to this all than the welfare system, and I do strongly feel there SHOULD be gov’t programs for those who need help, but never will I support a socialist gov’t and I’ll never feel it’s right for honest, hard-working people who have accumulated wealth to be penalized for it.
I’m young, am just getting into learning about different viewpoints and ideas, and I tend to have conservative views in general. I don’t know much about liberal views (okay, I know the basic VIEWS but not the why of them) which is why I asked people to explain what they’d change and how it’d be done. Two points off the top of my head (regarding what Muirgeo posted) :
Healthcare for everyone, like Canada has– yes it would be nice to have universal insurance/healthcare. It isn’t right that so many, especially children, are not insured. BUT the universal system (at least in Canada- from what I read the problems are similar elsewhere) is flawed in terms of the quality of care. The quality of healthcare there is quite poor. My family has Canadian roots, and some relatives reside there. My uncle, a U.S. resident, had hip-replacement surgery here in the U.S.. Shortly after his first surgery, my grandmother (in Canada) was ill. My uncle decided against visiting her at that point… because he was afraid if something happened to his hip while he was there, he’d have to have Canadian health care. There was no way he wanted to risk injury in Canada because the health care there is so poor. (This wasn’t just a prejudice on his part- he grew up in Canada and has dual-residency, so he knows the systems in Canada.) Further– I read somewhere that a new drug to treat a longterm disease (I can’t remember details but I’ll try to find out more specifics) was not put on the market in Canada because it did not CURE the disease- even though it helped symptoms and gave relief, it was too expensive to put in the Canadian healthcare system BECAUSE of the universal healthcare. They couldn’t afford the drug, so people must go without it. I think that’s terrible. Also, if universal healthcare is implemented in the US then that means more doctors will be needed, and those doctors will very likely be mediocre at best. Is it not a health risk going to someone who really SHOULDN’T be a doctor? Just a few thoughts-
As for unions- I think they were a good idea in the past but now they are outrageously overpowered. Both my parents are union and both have conveyed disgust at the politics played, and how a vast majority of it is unnecessary. I’ve heard numerous similar complaints as well, from others. This is something I don’t know a great deal about, and I do think unions help some people, but I don’t think they are a necessity everywhere anymore.
I wish I had time to write more, and thanks for sharing your views (on BOTH sides)- debate is much more interesting than insults 🙂
Laney,
I always voted Republican when I was younger. I believed in their motto of Individual responsibility and hated the Democrats lawyers and victim mentality. I still feel the same way about those issues but the Republican party does not..IMO. The current republican Party is all about transferring wealth and power to an elite few at the expense of the many and to the detriment of democracy.
Universal Health Care and labor unions are complex issues and can not be simplified into black and white. You make good points on both of them.
My advice to you is too ALWAYS listen to both sides. For the best Progressive view listen to Thom Hartmann. His show is free via Podcast on iTunes or at The White Rose Society. Also consider Lou Dobbs, Jack Cafferty or Kieth Olberman..and seriously for a satirical but somewhat honest view of poliitcs The Daily Show or the Çolbert Report.
He regularly invites Conservative guess on to the show and has great and civil debates. Conservative callers go to the front of the call line. Compare that to Rush Limbaugh who basically never has guest or rarely allows opposing views or to Sean Hannity who simply shouts people down.
Bottom line keep your mind open, listen to both sides and never assume the issue can be easily defined in terms of black and white.
Why is Mexico and Colombia like they are and why is Sweden and canada as they are?
Are you really sure you want to pick Sweden and Canada as your shining examples? I seem to recall that BOTH COUNTRIES just threw out their Liberal Governments recently.
Posted by: James Cloninger
That’s a good thing. That means they are true democracies and their countries will be stronger for it. I bet they keep their main government institutions like socialized medicine.
James,
I would reply but I really don’t think you made any significant points. And the ones you did make are either wrong or simply your own unsupported innuendo.
Per pupil spending is declining not increasing as far I understand it. So you’ll need to back that claim before I’d believe.
As for the Great Depression. you guys are getting really good at the blame game but the fact is that it occurred after 25 years of Republican dominance, de-regulation and laissez faire policies.
A lot of the other stuff you said we agree on. Oh and who was it that took social security off budget????
Henry, I agree, Muirgeo isn’t worthy of the gunk on your sister’s shoe. The military put their lives on the line for even the stupidest son of a bitch like Muirgeo, and he has the audacity to complain that they get good travel, like it’s some kind of damn corporate perk. F’n idiot, as we all know by this and his other posts.
I do like Imperial beer; I was in the Tamarindo area, typical tourist a couple of years ago. But, Nica beer, Victoria, is awesome, too. I think the beer is better there because it’s lighter for the hot weather. Or, maybe it’s better because I felt so hot down there and needed a cold one.
If you ever happen to find yourself in Nicaragua, let me know, I can hook you up with some great folks there. Drivers, guides, etc. Lowest crime rate in Latin Am, believe it or not. The people actually like Norte Americanos!
As for the Great Depression. you guys are getting really good at the blame game but the fact is that it occurred after 25 years of Republican dominance, de-regulation and laissez faire policies.
We don’t have laissez-faire capitalism here anymore, so again, your trying to compare today to then is poor.
First…we need to make lobbying basically illegal. An indirect passage of money from a Corporation to a lobbyist to a politician IS NOT free speech….its bribery and influence peddling.
So, presenting your views ISN’T free speech? Is it “bribery” any more than “if you don’t do this, I’ll have my people not vote for you”?
The First Amendment — she is a cruel mistress.
We need single payer health care. We are the only developed nation with out it. We pay over $10,000 a year for health insurance and other countries pay $5,000 and have better outcomes.
Except they DON’T have better outcomes. Why do you think so many foreign leaders come HERE for medical aid when they have a problem? Do you think waiting lists for heart surgery is a good thing?
By the way, those jobs in the FDR programmes were, you know, low-skilled labour jobs…you know, the ones that illegal aliens do today?
Actually, that, too, is a bit of a fallacy. The jobs he created were for skilled artisans, by and large. Low-skilled labor didn’t get a lot of FDR.
And, just to show his goodness, states that were “swing” states in elections got many times more benefits than “safe” states. The West received MUCH more federal money than the “safe” South, even though the South was hit much harder.
Revamp malpractice claims dramatically (an OB/GYN can be sued for birth defects EIGHTEEN YEARS after the child was born). Have the government get out of Medicare and Medicaid completely. Nothing will lower prices quicker than that.
We need to drop the rate on social security to 3% and get rid of the cap. This along with rolling the VA medical system, meducare and medicaid together will pay for a single payer system.
Except I like getting major surgeries without waiting 6 months. And I certainly don’t trust the gov’t to handle my healthcare — nor do I want my medical files in the possession of gov’t bureaucrats.
We need to walk away from GATT, NAFTA and the WTO. Ross Perot was absolutly right. The big sucking sound is happening…our jobs and money are all going overseas never again to be invested in our country and its people.
Jobs, which have been priced outside of the worth of the job, are being lost. That’s life. People griped that horse carriage manufacturers would lose their jobs when the cars hit. The zeppelin industry took a huge blow after airplanes became common.
Tariffs need to be re-instituted.
Hint: You know what CAUSED the worldwide Great Depression of the 1930’s?
Tarriffs.
The stock market crash was hardly the cause of the problem. The Smoot-Hartley tariff unleashed a tariff war that basically killed off EVERYBODY’s economies.
A worse idea has not existed.
Unions need to be empowered not weekened.
I stand corrected. Forced unionization is virulently anti-American (what happened to the Freedom of Choice the left is so big on?) and leads to spiralling labor costs and dramatically reduced productivity.
There is a reason why Europe’s economies tend to struggle. France has had double-digit unemployment FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.
The power of the unions is one of the key causes. That and the social welfare system.
Eductation has to be prime. We need to invest much more in education. Head Start, day care and and work training programs properly done repay society much more then we invest.
Work training programs are economic boondoggles and always have been. Absolute fiascoes.
And allowing school vouchers will improve education more than throwing more money in the pit will.
College loans need to be easier and college costs need to be less.
Blame the faculty of colleges (who, mind you, tend to be “progressives”).
College is vastly overpriced for what you receive. Yes, college costs need to be slashed massively — but since the college won’t do it unilaterally, somebody will have to make them do it.
Which leads to the protests and whining that nobody wants to touch.
Taxes on the wealthy need to be returned to at least the Clinton era rates.
The rich pay a larger percentage of the overall tax burden now than they did under Clinton.
Why do you wish to punish the poor?
But before you disparage my ideas think back to the last time we had policies like now that you advocate and how it ended up in the Great Depression…then remember how FDR instituted policies as I mention and the middle class worker saw his income and security rise substantially.
Which, to be generous, is an out-and-out lie.
FDR did not end the Depression. FDR extended it and made it worse. He basically froze blacks out of jobs (forced unionization + unions refusing to allow blacks = freezing blacks out of jobs). He couldn’t get unemployment below 10% UNTIL WORLD WAR II hit. He imprisoned people for doing such DASTARDLY things as charging less to press a shirt than the gov’t mandated. He had food destroyed to keep prices high rather than give it to the poor.
FDR did more to hurt the economy than Hoover did.
Next look at all the other third world countries and all the democracies of Europe and the world and ask which have polcies that resemble the republicans and which have policies that resemble what I and many progressives advocate.
State control of the economy? Every ME state has that and you have some IMPRESSIVE misery there.
Cuba? Wow, that place is a goldmine.
Why is Mexico and Colombia like they are and why is Sweden and canada as they are?
Why are Cubans NOW fed less than Cuban SLAVES were back in 1862?
I think they calculate the numbers different.
They do. Their unemployment numbers, by all accounts, are much worse than they reveal.
Europeans take far more time off, retire younger, live longer and never have to be worried about health insurance even when without a job.
It is also increasingly obvious that the gov’t cannot maintain their system and will end up defaulting on the “promises” they made.
I’m not sure that’s true. I thought spending has gone down. It has in California. But I do know in California per pupil spending is about $4,500
Actually, it ranges between 4,800 and 34,000/yr.
Washington DC, which has the worst system in the country, spends an average of 8,044 per student.
Money isn’t the issue. The system is the issue.
And, don’t forget that there was no FDIC then either, so when the run upon the banks happened, it was a crushing final blow.
That is not totally accurate, actually. We had laws where a bank could have only one branch and that was it. This led to a total lack of diversity of revenue and when, for example, banks with heavy reliance of farmers had to deal with farmers having massive income disruption, they ALSO went under.
Banks with diversified portfolios didn’t have the problem.
Sorry, that doesn’t wash. The primary culprit of the Great Depression here was bad stock market practices, with wild speculation and buying on high margins.
Gotta disagree. Bad market practices and policies definitely helped cause the crash — but the DEPRESSION was largely caused by tariffs choking off trade and plunging the entire world into a massive depression.
He regularly invites Conservative guess on to the show and has great and civil debates. Conservative callers go to the front of the call line. Compare that to Rush Limbaugh who basically never has guest or rarely allows opposing views
An outright lie. Libs are put to the front of the line on Rush’s show.
BTW, why complain that Rush won’t allow opposing views while praising Olbermann’s show, which is markedly worse about that.
Per pupil spending is declining not increasing as far I understand it.
Care to provide a link to back up your incorrect assumption?
As for the Great Depression. you guys are getting really good at the blame game but the fact is that it occurred after 25 years of Republican dominance, de-regulation and laissez faire policies.
It occurred because a tariff war shut off all international trade.
And you ignored that “progressives” ran the WH for most of those 25 yrs. Teddy and Taft were HARDLY conservatives.
And, mind you, early on, FDR ALSO promised laissez-faire programs.
-=Mike
By the way, those jobs in the FDR programmes were, you know, low-skilled labour jobs…you know, the ones that illegal aliens do today?
Actually, that, too, is a bit of a fallacy. The jobs he created were for skilled artisans, by and large. Low-skilled labor didn’t get a lot of FDR.
Thanks, Mike, I stand corrected. And, you reiterated several of my points (FDR unemployment and the horrible idea of tarrifs)
Gotta disagree. Bad market practices and policies definitely helped cause the crash — but the DEPRESSION was largely caused by tariffs choking off trade and plunging the entire world into a massive depression.
I think the Crash was the lynchpin, though events were stacked against the economy for quite sometime, I agree. And the biggest stack before the crash was the tarrifs.
muirego posted:
You go first.