The more I think about Pope Benedict’s remarks last week, and the fallout thereof, the more I think I like this guy.
He initially quoted they Byzantine emperor Manuel II, who said in 1391:
“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”
It provoked a HUGE furor, with all sorts of people — not just Muslims, but some others as well — calling him all sorts of names and demanding all kinds of apologies and acts of contrition and even some for some serious retribution against the Pontiff.
Then he issued his apology, stating that he”sincerely regrets that certain passages of his address could have sounded offensive to the sensitivities of the Muslim faithful…”
A few accused Bennie (I like him so much, I feel comfortable calling him by a nickname) of weaseling, of backing down from his initial statement. Hell, at first, so did I. But then I thought about it some more, and two things struck me:
1) While whole hosts of people got bent out of shape over his quoting Manuel II, I didn’t see too many refutations of it, with people citing just where Manuel got it wrong and showing some positive innovations from Islam.
2) Bennie’s “apology” followed the liberal model of such things, saying in essence “I’m sorry you were offended.” He didn’t say he was wrong, that he regretted saying it, or any of the other hallmarks of a sincere apology; he just said he felt badly that some folks didn’t like hearing it.
I have a lot of issues with the Catholic Church in general, and I’m not really thrilled with a lot of Benedict XVI’s notions and policies, but in this matter he’s got this agnostic firmly in his corner.
Can I have an “AMEN!” from the people?
ST,
Uh huh. Did you read the Jewish Week article?
To quote it:
“That is a clear affirmation of Judaism with no theological strings attached, no Jesus waiting for Jews at the end of the theological day. If this is the book’s message, then it is an important step forward on the part of the Catholic Church.”
Father Pawlikowski stressed that the new document also appears to affirm the importance of the “Jewish Bible,” a new term for the Vatican that he said would be highly significant if it replaces the traditional “Old Testament,” which has a negative implication as being replaced by the “New Testament.”
“The document seems to say that Christians should never deprecate or see the Jewish Bible as inferior, which coming from major Vatican biblical scholars could have profound implications for Catholic religious and educational material,” Father Pawlikowski said.
Wow. What anti-semitism. Affirming the legitimacy of the Jewish faith. Establishing that their covenant with God is still valid. That the Messiah that opened the gates of heaven for all of mankind may not be the Messiah that the jews were waiting for. Esp. since by virtue of their covenant with God, jews were already eligable for heaven…
Son, learn to read, and learn some history and theology before you try to debate it.
YES I TOTALLY AGREED WITH THE POPE 100%.
THIS IS WHAT U CALL FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Just urm…..
i don’t know…
just don’t harm/attack/criticize anyone…
the world will be better place then.
islam/christian/jews/buddah/hindu/etc=equal
all religions want their followers to be good.
thats it.the end.
An ‘Amen’ is coming from this Catholic as well. Great post!
please can you help me find the 16 benedict pop
E-mail address to request to help to find my sister
So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13: Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14: If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another’s feet. 15: For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17: If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. 18: I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the Scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me. 19: Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he. 20: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. John 13:12-20
Algebra Teachers? Just asking
As a matter of fact Algebra is AL-Gebra created by Muslims. The name Al gibraan comes ot mind. Also Al-Chemia (Chemistry), and Kulliat (Collegiate) etc etc.
Muslim in the 7th century only had 25,000 ablebodied men, so they could NOT have conquered the lands from Arabia to Morocoo without local help. Actually the followers of Arius, known as Arianism were pure monotheists, and they converted to Islam en masse. When Muslims liberated jeursamlem, they invited the Jews back in and the number of churches grew astronomically.
Kindly read the covenant of Muhammad posted on ajma@yahoogroups.com, or on hundred of sites.
The covenant prohibts Muslims from harming Christians.
Also, early Muslim did not want any conversions an actually turned Christians and others away. See my earlier post.
groups.yahoo.com/group/ajma
Algebra Teachers? Just asking
As a matter of fact Algebra is AL-Gebra created by Muslims. The name Al gibraan comes ot mind. Also Al-Chemia (Chemistry), and Kulliat (Collegiate) etc etc.
Muslim in the 7th century only had 25,000 ablebodied men, so they could NOT have conquered the lands from Arabia to Morocoo without local help. Actually the followers of Arius, known as Arianism were pure monotheists, and they converted to Islam en masse. When Muslims liberated jeursamlem, they invited the Jews back in and the number of churches grew astronomically.
Kindly read the covenant of Muhammad posted on ajma@yahoogroups.com, or on hundred of sites.
The covenant prohibts Muslims from harming Christians.
Also, early Muslim did not want any conversions an actually turned Christians and others away. See my earlier post.
groups.yahoo.com/group/ajma
Algebra Teachers? Just asking
As a matter of fact Algebra is AL-Gebra created by Muslims. The name Al gibraan comes ot mind. Also Al-Chemia (Chemistry), and Kulliat (Collegiate) etc etc.
Muslim in the 7th century only had 25,000 ablebodied men, so they could NOT have conquered the lands from Arabia to Morocoo without local help. Actually the followers of Arius, known as Arianism were pure monotheists, and they converted to Islam en masse. When Muslims liberated jeursamlem, they invited the Jews back in and the number of churches grew astronomically.
Kindly read the covenant of Muhammad posted on ajma@yahoogroups.com, or on hundred of sites.
The covenant prohibts Muslims from harming Christians.
Also, early Muslim did not want any conversions an actually turned Christians and others away. See my earlier post.
groups.yahoo.com/group/ajma
Algebra Teachers? Just asking
As a matter of fact Algebra is AL-Gebra created by Muslims. The name Al gibraan comes ot mind. Also Al-Chemia (Chemistry), and Kulliat (Collegiate) etc etc.
Muslim in the 7th century only had 25,000 ablebodied men, so they could NOT have conquered the lands from Arabia to Morocoo without local help. Actually the followers of Arius, known as Arianism were pure monotheists, and they converted to Islam en masse. When Muslims liberated jeursamlem, they invited the Jews back in and the number of churches grew astronomically.
Kindly read the covenant of Muhammad posted on ajma@yahoogroups.com, or on hundred of sites.
The covenant prohibts Muslims from harming Christians.
Also, early Muslim did not want any conversions an actually turned Christians and others away. See my earlier post.
groups.yahoo.com/group/ajma
If you wish to quote from the quran, please post the correct translation. Also, please quote the entire surah (chapter) so that the enitre verse is self evident.
“Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. – 2:191”
When you see the surah following this surah, it clealry says, ONLY is SELF DEFENCE, and ONLY if they throw you out of your homes. If they repent, let them go. THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION
So even though Muslims are supposed to defend themselves, very SCRICT restriction of DEFNISIVE war have been clearly laid down.
O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends (actulally the Arabic word is AULIAY, which means religious benfactor, read the translation of Mohammad Asad); they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54
==============================
I would hate to play the scripture game, and do not want to insult our Christian and Jewish friends, therefore I will not quote from Deutronomy or Numbers to show how allegorical stories from the Torah or the Bible can also be mistaken taken out of context.
God Bless you. Please spread the love of Jesus Christa, the magnanimity of Prohpet Mulhammad, the wisdom of Solomon, and the intellect of Moses.
God Bless America
Saul to kill of the Amalekites “both man and woman, infant and suckling.” (1 Sam.15:2-3)
he Bible’s guide to torture
Sometimes you have to beat people for their own good.
The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly. Proverbs 20:30
Some people should be beaten as a punishment for their crimes.
And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten. Deuteronomy 25:2
It’s always a good idea to beat fools. Beat them whenever you find them.
A fool’s lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes. Proverbs 18:6
Judgments are prepared for scorners, and stripes for the back of fools. Proverbs 19:29
A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool’s back. Proverbs 26:3
And slaves may be beaten, as long they survive for at least a day or two after the beating.
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Exodus 21:20-21
Beating your children is a sure sign of parental love.
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Proverbs 13:24
And don’t stop just because they cry.
Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying. Proverbs 19:18
Beating your children will make them less foolish.
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Proverbs 22:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame. Proverbs 29:15
So beat them hard and often. Don’t worry about hurting them. You may break a few bones and cause some brain damage, but it isn’t going to kill them. And even if it does, they’ll be better off. They’ll thank you in heaven for beating the hell out of them.
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 23:13-14
The Bible has many examples of a good and proper use of torture.
For example, David was “a man after God’s own heart” (1 Samuel 13:14, Acts 13:22) and “did what was right in the sight of the Lord … save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite” (1 Kings 15:5). Since he tortured the inhabitants of several cities, torture (at least in certain situations) must be okay with God.
And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under axes of iron, and made them pass through the brick-kiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. 2 Samuel 12:31
And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon. 1 Chronicles 20:3
Nehemiah, who is considered a good leader in the Bible, beat people and pulled out their hair.
And I contended with them, and cursed them, and smote certain of them, and plucked off their hair, and made them swear by God, saying, Ye shall not give your daughters unto their sons, nor take their daughters unto your sons, or for yourselves. Nehemiah 13:25
At times, Jesus seemed to look favorably on torture.
In his parables, for example, Jesus often spoke of torturing his enemies.
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors. Matthew 18:34
And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 22:12-13
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:50-51
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:46-48
The devils expected Jesus to torture them. (And Jesus didn’t deny that he planned to do so.)
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? Matthew 8:29
Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. Mark 5:7
What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not. Luke 8:28
God uses a rod to beat those who disobey his commandments.
If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.Psalm 89:31-2
At the end of the world, God will torture people until they want to die. But he won’t let them die so that he can continue to torture them.
And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. Revelation 9:5-6
But the ultimate torture is hell. If hell is justified, anything is permissible.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:41-42
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Matthew 18:8-9
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41
…hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-48
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:22-24
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever. Revelation 14:10-11
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